rvbldr3170

Active Member
Hi all,
Hey, how about some empty weights for some of the flying RV-4's out there.
Is under 900 lbs. even a remote possibility?
Mine is going to be:
0-360 Carb'ed, No lights, Catto Prop ( I think), Dynon D-180, Garmin GTX-327, Icom A-200, Garmin GPSMap 296, Sam James Cowl, Lightweight Starter, Automotive Alternator (Nipppon Denso 25 Amp), 2 Mags, no steam gauges, painted

Any estimates???
 
Merle, I dont really think that less than 900 is possible if it is a complete painted RV4, AND it is weighed on accurate scales.

You can see my weight and equipment here.

The way you describe yours my guess is you will end up 5 or 10lbs lighter.

Keep saving the grams!
 
RV-4 - 0-360 Carb & Hartzell C/S

I think anything much less than 950 lbs. would be difficult to achieve. My first -4 finished in 1988 with 0-320, carb & wood prop was something over 925.

The RV-4 I currently have with 0-360, carb, Hartzell C/s, Trutrak A/p & Alt/H has gained weight and is 1,046 lbs., as weighed with electronic scales in last 9 mos. Many weights you read about from years ago with bathroom scales may sound light, but the error in those weights is usually significant.

It's easy to make them heavy, but difficult to keep them light.


Jake Thiessen
 
weight

I have a 1983. KX155, Mode C, Great American wood prop , Localizer and a garmin 296. 998 lbs with red paint.

Bill.
 
i weighed in at 995 with a O-360 hartzell constant speed and no paint.

bob burns
N82RB
 
It would be helpful if people could also post their empty CG and what engine they have.

I'm trying to figure out how much the CG shifts between using a 320 and a 360.
 
Van's lists the RV-4 at 905-913, but I have yet to hear from anyone who has one that is near that light.
That being said, that's why I posted the question.

I am just going to plug along and be very concious of the weight, and see where it comes out.

Thanks for the input.
 
Keep it light...

Merle,

I finished my RV4 in 96' with no paint and a wood prop/narrow deck 0-320. It tipped the scales at 935 lbs. Later I painted it, installed some goodies and she gained 15 lbs. Still hard to beat!
In my humble opinion, to come in below 900 lbs would require weight shaving at the structural integrity level.

My 2 pennies...
Smokey
HR2
 
It would be helpful if people could also post their empty CG and what engine they have.

I'm trying to figure out how much the CG shifts between using a 320 and a 360.
This question can be answered analytically. You need the following input data:

1. Predicted empty weight and CG of the aircraft with the O-320.
2. Engine weight and CG location for each engine model. The FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS) for these engines. Note that the weight and CG varies with the exact engine model. The TCDS gives engine CG location as inches aft of the prop flange. You would then need to figure out where that is in Van's datum.

Once you have the above info, it is a simple math exercise to calculate the new CG. For example, using fictitious data (you need to replace these numbers with your data):

Let's say that based on studying the weights and CGs of the large number of RV-4s listed in the database given in an earlier response, you guess that an aircraft with your equipment fit, with an O-320, would have an empty weight and CG of 1,000 lb at 70 inches. 1,000 lb times 70 inches is a moment of 70,000 in-lb.

Looking at the TCDS, you see that an O-320-D1A has an empty weight of 255 lb and the CG is 14.25 inches aft of the prop flange. Lets pretend that you determine that the engine CG is at 35.25 inches in Van's datum. We are going to fictitiously remove this engine, so we'll use a negative weight of -255 lb, at 35.25 inches, for a moment of -8,988.75.

The O-360-A1A has an empty weight of 258 lb (only three lb heavier than the O-320-D1A, if you can believe Lycoming), and the CG is 13.88 inches aft of the prop flange. Let's pretend that this is 34.88 inches in Van's datum. We are going to add this engine, so we'll use a positive weight. 258 lb times 34.88 inches has a moment of 8,999.04.

Add the weights: 1000 - 255 + 258 = 1,003 lb.

Add the moments: 70,000 - 8,988.75 + 8,999.04 = 70,010.29.

Divide the new moment by the new weight to get the new CG: 70,010.29 / 1,003 = 69.8". So, using these fictitious numbers, the CG has moved ahead 0.2 inches. You can repeat this calculation with the correct numbers, and get a more accurate answer.
 
"The O-360-A1A has an empty weight of 258 lb (only three lb heavier than the O-320-D1A, if you can believe Lycoming..."

well you are right, I find that hard to believe, that is way I'm looking for real world numbers. Guess I will check out the database you mentioned.
 
WEIGHT & BALANCE DATA

Make: Van?s Aircraft
Model: RV4 Serial # 4354 Registration # N359DM

Datum= 60 inches forward of wing leading edge. (L.E.)
Design C.G. Range = 15% to 29% of wing chord, or 8.7? to 16.8 inches from L.E., or 68.7 to 77.4 inches aft of Datum.
Wing L.E. = 60?aft of datum.
Main wheel, right = 60?aft of datum.
Main wheel, left = 60.3?aft of datum.
Tail Wheel = 237.5?aft of datum.

Aircraft weighed empty in level flight attitude.

Weight (lbs) Arm (ins) Moment (lbs. in)
Right Wheel 441 60 26460
Left Wheel 436 60.3 26290.8
Tail Wheel 56 237.5 13300
Total: 933 66050.8

CG=66050.8 / 933= Empty moment of aircraft 70.8? aft of datum
 
887 lbs. First flight. O-320-A3B (carburated) Stock starter. Automotive alternator. Basic nav lights. VFR instruments + ROC, TurnSlip. Very light Imron paint.

846 lbs. Non electric, wood prop, O-320-A3B w Elison TBI. Full inverted fuel/oil. No wing tip or gear fairings. (Top speed was about 155 mph with this very flat prop.)

896 lbs. (Empty CG 15.5%) MT CS prop. Bendix injection, B&C starter, alternator. motorcycle GelCell.

Weighed on digital aircraft scales. (Platform beam scales the first one.)
 
Always Learning!

WEIGHT & BALANCE DATA

Make: Van?s Aircraft
Model: RV4 Serial # 4354 Registration # N359DM

Datum= 60 inches forward of wing leading edge. (L.E.)
Design C.G. Range = 15% to 29% of wing chord, or 8.7? to 16.8 inches from L.E., or 68.7 to 77.4 inches aft of Datum.
Wing L.E. = 60?aft of datum.
Main wheel, right = 60?aft of datum.
Main wheel, left = 60.3?aft of datum.
Tail Wheel = 237.5?aft of datum.

Aircraft weighed empty in level flight attitude.

I didn't realize that tail draggers were weighed in level flight configuration, for the purpose of W&B! Is this true??

Tom
 
It is mainly for ease of computation. Every plane sits 3 point at a different angle dependent on weight and construction. You would have to measure the angle and trigify all the arms to get a balance point. But... the designer specified CG limits based on the level balance point. The CG in the nose high attitude would be further aft because the center of mass is actually above the wing. (A vertical line through the two balance points will intersect at the true center of mass... but the difference is trivial on a compact design like the RV. )
 
Makes Sense

Thanks guys.
Your explanation makes good sense to me. I just had never thought about it.

Tom