[Subwaybob]

Ok am I going crazy here? I am rolling along building the emp for the 7. I get to the trim. Piano hinge is JUST the right size. HOWEVER you have to have a longer pin to come out of the hinge and bend in a squirrelly Z pattern and attach it to the spar. Now remember it is JUST long enough. So I call Vans and I get "It will come with the fuselage kit." Really? What are you thinking? I done a cursory view and I have three piano hinges and no extra pins as I can see. Am I missing something here? Why in the world would major emp parts come with another part of the kit? What if I wanted to carry this and run off of the Red Bull platform? I CAN'T TRIM WHEN I RUN OFF THE PLATFORM BECAUSE I DIDN'T BUY THE FUSELAGE KIT!!!

Seriously though, did I miss something here? Unless I did I'm calling Vans and making them get me a part PDQ in the AM. Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[Bruce]

Subway,
Don't sweat it.
I have plenty of pin material. Just have to come see the project.

Just a phone call away.

 

[longranger]

I noticed the same thing. There was a post recently that said the actual pin comes in the fuselage kit.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Wait 'til you get to the part of the fuselage kit where it has you building the subpanel and it talks about installing the "hat" for the quick release tip-up mechanism.

What they don't tell you is the parts come with the finishing kit.

(But take the hint, don't install that turkey)

And then there's DWG 38, which shows you how to trim the rear spar doubler for drilling to the fuselage. DWG 38, however, doesn't come with the wing kit (or at least it didn't), it comes with the fuselage kit (a good reason, btw to have the preview plans on hand).

BTW, you'll be buying extra hinge material on the project, might as well buy it now.

 

[Flyin'Bryan]

Just had a similar experience for the RV8 DWG 11A

And then there's DWG 38, which shows you how to trim the rear spar doubler for drilling to the fuselage. DWG 38, however, doesn't come with the wing kit (or at least it didn't), it comes with the fuselage kit (a good reason, btw to have the preview plans on hand).

DWG 11A is the center spar section drawing for the RV8, which provides the location and proper orientation of a couple of AN4 nut plates that go on the root of each main wing spar. Their purpose, however, is to accomodate some bolts that attach the wing spar to the center section (which you don't get with the Wing kit, but with the fuselage kit for the 8). The instructions, however, did not seem to mention the rivet callout for these nut plates. So of course, those will be listed in my large DWG 11A drawing, right? WRONG!

Since the reference to DWG 11A was in the instructions for my Wing spars, I surfed through my large Wing kit drawings for DWG 11A - not there. Finally figured out that I don't have the large plan for DWG 11A cuz the center section for the 8 comes with the fuse kit, which I don't have yet. So I had to resort to the smaller DWG 11A drawing in the preview plans to find the rivet callout that I was looking for.

Anyway, to answer the original question about the piano wire for the trim tab hinge - I think Vans intention is to give you enough to actually make and fit the trim tab to the elevator, realizing that this will be installed and removed perhaps several times over the course of the build while you fit it to the elevator, fit the empennage to the fuselage, or for painting, etc. So they save the correct sized pin for later. Think of it as using the first one for building and trial fitting where it can get bent up, scratched up, nicked, etc., and then they give you a brand new shiny one later on down the road.

Given recent incidents that seem to involve trim tab assemblies to one degree or another, I guess I kind of like the fact that I get a new pin a little later on in the build. Just wish they would not give you instructions in the preview plans that first tell you to install it, followed immediately by - "you wont be able to install it because the pin provided is too short." Seems kinda dumb to me to that they do that.

So NO, you are not crazy - just dealing with some badly written instructions from time to time like all the rest of us.

 

[Subwaybob]

I noticed the same thing. There was a post recently that said the actual pin comes in the fuselage kit.

I called them, see below...

Wait 'til you get to the part of the fuselage kit where it has you building the subpanel and it talks about installing the "hat" for the quick release tip-up mechanism.

Good thing I am installing a slider!


Ok here is the deal. It is not with the fuselage kit. The pins are in the FINISH kit! The pins in the piano hinge are aluminum and they come with the hinge when Van's buys it. Van wants you to put a steel pin in there because duh, it's stronger. My understanding is that you get a lot of pin material in the finish kit to replace all the pins (aluminum) with steel. Flaps, etc. I think this is a bad idea from the forget standpoint but who am I to say? I will just make a list of stuff to come back to and redo.

 

[Ironflight]

Hmmmm....I am with the camp that says that by the end of the project, you'll have all sorts of left-over hinge material and pins....but just to clarify you last Bob, I can't think of any hinge PIN material that is aluminum. The hinge itself comes in aluminum and steel, but all the pins that I have seen are some sort of steel.

Paul

 

[rzbill]

Collins and Dye +1,

I ordered extra hinge pin for a few things. I ran out when doing the cowl.

Paul, my kit came with some hinge that had aluminim hinge pin. The instructions tell you to discard it and replace it with the steel pin (or SS, I forget). I used the aluminum stuff for initial jigging.

Don't sweat it Subway. Stick the flush pin in there so you can store it for a couple of years and write with a big sharpie on the tab to replace it

 

[Ironflight]

Paul, my kit came with some hinge that had aluminim hinge pin. The instructions tell you to discard it and replace it with the steel pin (or SS, I forget). I used the aluminum stuff for initial jigging.

Hmmm....I don't know for sure, but I think that there are two materials for the hinge pins we normally get in the kit - standard is Cad-plated steel, and optional is Stainless Steel. I don't recall aluminum pins, but again...I could be mistaken. The Mil Spec for the typical MS piano hinge talks of Cad-plated pins.

I'm sure Gil will be along shortly with the correct answer! (and citations)

 

[rzbill]

For me it was the big diameter (1/8" pin) hinge that they specify for the cowl to firewall interface. Again, the instructions blatantly said to replace the aluminum pin with the supplied steel. I did not use it for the top cowl to firewall interface (used Camlocks) but I think the instructions said to replace the big pin with 0.093 for that sharp curve.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Shoot, now I have to go back and read the instructions for the trim tab. I do remember the instrx calling out replacing the aluminum pins with steel for the cowling assembly, don't recall it for the trim tab, though.

And Van's is right, there is a lot of hinge and pin material to sort through in the finishing kit to figure out what hinge goes where.

Still, that didn't help when my leg fairing hinge material checked in at 24" when I needed 27".

Remember, this is Van. He gives you "enough" to do the part... once.... perfectly.

 

[Subwaybob]

Stewart - Van's

The hinge itself comes in aluminum and steel, but all the pins that I have seen are some sort of steel.

Paul

Hope you're wrong Paul, or maybe right I should say. That would make me madder to learn that they sell you the "complete" pre punched empennage kit only to find out: "Oh, BTW you needed to order more hinge pin material when you ordered the empennage, thanks!"

Stewart with Vans says what I previously said which is they are aluminum and need to be replaced. If this is true and there are others that believe as you do, I wonder if there are a large number of RV's flying with aluminum pins.... What concerns me more is you are 99.999% right most of the time.

 

[GAHco]

Some more info on hinge pins.

Hope you're wrong Paul, or maybe right I should say. That would make me madder to learn that they sell you the "complete" pre punched empennage kit only to find out: "Oh, BTW you needed to order more hinge pin material when you ordered the empennage, thanks!"

Stewart with Vans says what I previously said which is they are aluminum and need to be replaced. If this is true and there are others that believe as you do, I wonder if there are a large number of RV's flying with aluminum pins.... What concerns me more is you are 99.999% right most of the time.

The pins MS20253 pins are stainless steel and typically Cad II plated.

For additional options see here

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/ms20253.pdf

 

[Subwaybob]

The pins MS20253 pins are stainless steel and typically Cad II plated.

I see that. I also can just tell after you remove the pin and it takes a sledgehammer to bend it. So back to my original gripe. when they send the empennage for the 7, 8, or 9 they are sending a trim tab piano hinge which is an AN257 or a MS 20253. They are NOT sending the extra pin or making the piano hinge long enough to trim so you can "Z" the pin and attach it to the rib. So keep this in mind when you order the empennage for these kits. I would suspect that it may be this way for all the kits. Whatever... I just stole the one from the wing trim and ordered another. Onward and Upward!