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mayo3808

Well Known Member
I am building a RV-9A and was trying to decided what to do about an ELT.
Buy a 121.5, are can i just buy one of the new personal 406 ELT's an be legal.
I really do not what to buy the $1000.00 unit if i do not need to. What's everybody doing about ELTs? Thanks Brent
 
I looked into this awhile ago for my cherokee... everyone was telling me that the new 406MHz elt was a requirement...

I did a bunch of digging, and the conclusion I came to was that it's not REQUIRED, but after the first of the year, they won't come looking for you if you don't have a 406MHz elt.
 
Here's the juicy bits, from an AOPA press release:
As of February 1, 2009, the international COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system will discontinue satellite-based monitoring of the 121.5/243-MHz frequencies, in part because of a high number of false signals attributed with these frequencies. While there's no requirement in the United States to replace the first- and second-generation 121.5-MHz ELTs, after this date, 121.5/243-MHz distress signals transmitted from ELTs operating on the lower frequency will only be detected by ground-based receivers such as local airport facilities and air traffic control facilities or by overflying aircraft. It is important to note that after 2009, existing 121.5-MHz ELTs, although still legal from the FAA's perspective, will provide extremely limited assistance if an aircraft crashes, especially in a remote location.
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406 MHz ELT not required in the US.

I have a 121.5 MHz ELT and consider it useless.

I carry a 406 MHz PLB and will eventually install an APRS system. Neither of these satisfy FAA requirements but offer far superior recovery/rescue options than the 121.5 Mhz ELT in my opinion.
 
this is what I heard, Faa inspector, he said that sure you can do the old ELT and a personal 406, but, like everything else, the FAA will catch up to it and change things, than you will be in for a 1000 406 to keep legal. I'm still on the fence on this one myself.
 
Feb 2009

Feb 2009, you won't have sat coverage of the 121.5. Still legal, but not monitored from up above.

I would wait until then as it appears the prices are coming down.

Good excuse for "got APRS"?
 
FAA Minimum Requirement

The FAA minimum requirement for an aircraft with more than ONE seat is to have a TSO-C91A ELT on a new installation IAW (In Accordance With) FAR 91.207.


 
Something to remember is that even though COSPAS-SARSAT coverage will be going away on 2/1, the airlines, still do, and will, monitor 121.5. It's the 'guard' frequency and has been required to be monitored since shortly after 9/11.

Probably not many times when an airliner isn't overhead or at the very least close by. I also monitor guard on all my cross country flights.
 
RTM (or RT FAR in this case)

airguy said:
Is this for certified AND experimental?
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Yep... read the FAR....

Intro...

Sec. 91.207

Emergency locator transmitters.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, no person may operate a U.S.-registered civil airplane unless--

If you want to go Experimental - Exhibition and/or Racing, you might be exempt... but with many more hassles...:)

You can also check out the other exemptions in (e) and (f) but I would not think they apply.
 
I just finished an RV7 and installed a 406 ELT. Reasoning being, I will fly out of the US at times and Canada will require it along with some other countries. If you now are without an ELT then maybe consider the cost of the 121.5 ELT plus a PLB and there you are at about the same cost. Also if I need one I don't want the OH **** my PLB is in the car thing to happen. I hope we never need an ELT but if we do I want to be found ASAP. Just mt 2 cents. Larry
 
If you even think you might install a 406, you will probably have to run some wires from your GPS's serial output to the new ELT, so plan ahead.

I did not take this into account when I built my -9 and to install one means I will have to drill out the rivets in my baggage compartment to run the wires. :( That means it won't happen until the prices come down, which is happening, I want to take the plane out of the country, and/or they are mandated.
 
Some wires won't do any harm...

N941WR said:
If you even think you might install a 406, you will probably have to run some wires from your GPS's serial output to the new ELT, so plan ahead.

I did not take this into account when I built my -9 and to install one means I will have to drill out the rivets in my baggage compartment to run the wires. :( That means it won't happen until the prices come down, which is happening, I want to take the plane out of the country, and/or they are mandated.
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... but a lot depends on the design of the ELT.

The GPS link is not required in the TSO IIRC.... and some ELTs have an integral GPS like the hand-held PLBs.

All will need some sort of wiring link to a pilot's annunciator panel.

Accuracy is improved with the GPS, but it's much better than the old 121.5 units, even without the GPS data.

Some accessible grommets or a short section of conduit in the hard to get at tail cone area might be the best approach for now.
 
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az_gila;253031 - "All will need some sort of wiring link to a pilot's annunciator panel. " said:
Accuracy is improved with the GPS, but it's much better than the old 121.5 units, even without the GPS data.

The advantage of 406+gps vs 406 no-GPS is more than just accuracy.

The main advantage of 406+GPS, to my mind, is the speed of dispatch of search and rescue, plus the much better accuracy of where you are.

With 406 no-gps , they don't get any useful location at all for mostly 1-2 hours - they get an indication of who you are and you are in trouble immediately by geosynchronous sat, but location relies on next pass of low earth orbit sat to get a doppler location on 406 signal.

With 406+gps the geosynchronous satimmediately gets a location as soon as the first signal is received.
John
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rjtjrt said:
...The main advantage of 406+GPS, to my mind, is the speed of dispatch of search and rescue, plus the much better accuracy of where you are...
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If it goes off.

Does anyone know if these new ELT triggers are more effective than the old ELT triggers?

The other question I have is, do these new ELTs send a continuous stream of data or is it a onetime broadcast?

If it is a continuous stream, then it seems like you could still hone in on a signal like they currently do with the 121.5 signal.
 
Every 406 beacon (ie those with or without GPS, ELT or PLB) have a 121.5 beacon as well. Rescue home on the 121.5 when they get close to position the 406 location has been calculated to be. (Hope this makes sense - slightly convoluted English sentence).
I assume the 406 signal is also continuously sent as it would make more sense to do so, but I stand to be corrected.
John
 
I'm about to compose my letter to protest the intro of 406 ELTs here and am reading some more details on them in the latest COPA publication.

The G switches and antennas are similar to existing types used in 121.5 models. Ameriking engineers have confirmed this with me.

Without GPS interface, homing accuracy with the present constellation of 406 satellites is no better and in fact probably worse than the old network, especially at high latitudes or in mountainous terrain. It could take up to 30 minutes to get a fix.

These don't provide any useful increase in safety at the present time IMO especially considering the cost. If they truly wanted something better, they should have written a better spec for the antennas and activation mechanism and insured that a proper set of monitoring satellites was in place before implementation.
 
Continual...

rjtjrt said:
Every 406 beacon (ie those with or without GPS, ELT or PLB) have a 121.5 beacon as well. Rescue home on the 121.5 when they get close to position the 406 location has been calculated to be. (Hope this makes sense - slightly convoluted English sentence).
I assume the 406 signal is also continuously sent as it would make more sense to do so, but I stand to be corrected.
John
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...would be a better description of the 406 signal. It is a short burst every 50 seconds, with some randomness thown in...

This is part of a previous post of mine in a ELT thread on VAF

EPIRB vs. PLB
This evaluation tested both EPIRBs and PLBs. Both transmit a 5 Watt digital burst of approximately 0.5 seconds duration approximately every 50 seconds. This period is randomly distributed between 47.5 to 52.5 seconds to prevent multiple beacon transmissions from interfering with each other. Both transmit an equivalent digital message.

The units continously transmit on 121.5 as well as you state.
 
406 ELB

Marine have been using the "406" for a couple of years. It has worked fine for them many boats missing on the rocks being found, (And lives saved). But these things don?t work under water. (Well they do but no one can hear them and I don?t think their radio waves make it to the Satellite from under the ocean).
My Question:
How many ELT?s have actually worked when needed after a serious aircraft accident?
(The old and the new.)
The information I have is that antenna break off during impact, serious fire burns the aircraft and destroys the ELT., The aircraft crashes into the sea and sinks, the ELT signal fails..
Compared to the marine environment an aircraft accident is generally much more violent
 
All of the newer CAP aircraft and a few older ones are equipped with a Becker DF (direction finding) unit that also DF's a 406 signal. Ground teams have limited capability to track the 406 beacon but the ELT's will also be transmitting on 121.5.

Having the Chesapeake Bay here in MD, we often chase down marine ELT's which transmit on 121.5. I am guessing that the older marine ELT's were only 121.5. A few months back my squadron's GT had a fustrating time finding what was obviously not a crashed airplane in mountainous Western MD. They ended up finding an older marine 121.5 ELT going off in a life raft that some kids had inflated in their back yard. Last year I located one from the air that was discarded in a landfill....poor GT had to find it there and shut it off.

The advantages of the new ELT's outweigh the disadvantages. First, they are much more accurate. Second, I and many other CAP GTL's and MP's will not be getting a call at "2AM" to chase down non-distress signals, of which are most of our calls, since each is encoded and AFRCC can just call the owner directly. Third, they are higher power output than the current 121.5 only ELT's so easier to locate on a search.

Personally, I have only a 121.5 unit in my plane. When the prices come down I will look into getting a 406. It is mounted correctly with my antenna draggin in the wind within the same bulkhead as the unit. Would love to hide it but just couldn't bring myself to reducing its chances of working correctly.

I try to monitor 121.5 on my comm when I can outside of the DC ADIZ and cross country trips and about once or twice a year I pick up a signal and call it in. In CAP we are supposed to monitor it as well and same thing there, inevitably we pick one. We could all do each other this favor, plus you hear some good stuff while monitoring like the time a soloing student pilot on a XC was calling in an emergency because he only had an hour of fuel left even though he was within 15 min of an airport with fuel.

Last stories: A few years back we found a non-distress ELT going off in an ultralight parked behind a bar. The Cadet GTM's thought that was pretty funny. Last year I found one going off in our airport manager's airplane and he had to cancel his XC trip planned for later that day because his battery needed replacing. A few weeks ago our GT found one at Leesburg Airport under the flight path of Dulles Airport and our aircraft tied up the departure path for about half an hour while locating the beacon. It was in a twin parked on the ramp. Found the owner's phone number and called him at 1AM to come shut it off. Oh what fun we have on the other side of these things.
 
121.5

Just got one delivered today, an ACK E-01 ELT. If it gets outlawed then I've wasted $150 (shipping included) if not, then I've saved $850. The price will come down and the savings won't be as great if I need to buy a new one.

I've read a lot of "missing aircraft" reports about how planes go missing in mountains or wooded areas never to be found. Where was the ELT then - probably damaged beyond use. When it comes to a permanently mounted ELT - I'll go with the minimums to stay legal 'cause I just don't think they are gonna survive the crash any more than I am.
 
Robert M said:
Just got one delivered today, an ACK E-01 ELT. If it gets outlawed then I've wasted $150 (shipping included) if not, then I've saved $850. The price will come down and the savings won't be as great if I need to buy a new one...
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Robert,

Call or email ACK and ask them about their upgrade program and what wires you will need to run from your panel to the ELT when/if you upgrade to a 406 unit, then run those wires now. That way when/if they mandate us to move to 406 the upgrade will be easier.
 
Will do!

Dang! All I wanted to say was will do and it said I had to type more words - so I did.
 
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