N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
I bought the ACK E-01 ELT and I?m trying to figure out where to place it. The options and my thoughts are:

1) In the baggage compartment ? Pro?s: Easy to get to in the event of an emergency and I want to remove it and/or use it as a hand held. Close to the CG. Con?s: Might get bumped by items in the baggage compartment.

2) Under the baggage compartment ? Pro?s: Out of the way. Close to the CG. Con?s: Must add a million and one plate nuts (weight) to the floor ribs. Under the floor, can?t get to it after an accident w/o tools.

3) Behind the baggage compartment, attached to the floor stiffener. Pro?s: Out of the way. Con?s: Behind the panel, can?t get to it w/o tools. Aft of the CG.

4) Under the seat pan. Pro?s: out of the way. On the CG. Con?s: Under the seat, can?t get to it w/o tools.

5) Behind a seat. Too big, won?t fit lengthwise.

Where have you placed your ELT and would you put it there again if you had to do it all over again?
 
Bill
Heres where I put mine. I only had to add a handful of plate nuts... I did however just pop rivet the floor in like Vans has you do.

FUSELAGE%20152.jpg


FUSELAGE%20163.jpg
 
I like the door idea

Jeff,

That might work for me. (I think my ELT is longer than yours.)

Is the floor structural? Can I put a hinge one end and a screw or two at the other end?

I was thinking of the door thing on the aft baggage wall but someone mentioned that that is structural and said I should not cut a big hole in it.
 
N941WR said:
Jeff,

That might work for me. (I think my ELT is longer than yours.).......Can I put a hinge one end and a screw or two at the other end?.......
Click to expand...
Yes
359aa.jpg
306fh.jpg

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 58 hours
RV-8A empennage done
 
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I haven't mounted mine yet, but I'm going with the same location as Jeff and Rick with a door like theirs.

I notice that Jeff has the ELT mounted on to angles mounted to the baggage ribs. That's good. I was scanning over the ELT install instructions and noticed they specifically recommend against installing directly to a skin, I guess because a flexible skin could cause a false trigger on hard landings.
 
My ELT Mount

I mounted mine because the FAA requires it so I would not be considered a safety purist but still I did it so it would work. The Unit itself is mounted on a doubler plate and a mount bracket support consisting of "Z" confonfigured angles riveted back-to-back. This worked very well and it remains the same today. The antenna is a different story. I originally mounted this long stiff whip on top of the fuselage forward of the vertical stabilizer and aft of the open sliding canopy. It was being permanently deformed in flight and acted as a draggy turbulator for the vertical stabilizer which I didn't need. After 8.7 hours I moved it inside the bagage compartment and went through all of the careful work to patch the hole in the fuselage in a way that wouldn't show after paint. That went well. Shortly afterward the antenna whip came loose from the base. It is a very flimsy assembly. Even without corrosion there is no doubt I would have lost it in flight already. In my archer I had a different model ELT (NARCO) and every 5 years or so I would loose the ELT after it coroded down under the lower "seal". Anyway, give your antenna installation as much attention as you give the box. Before and after images below.

Bob Axsom
url]

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9458/eltexant1bj.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1235/eltmnted22ro.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6444/eltantfinal3hb.jpg
 
Someone on here mounted theirs in the same location as mine, however they mounted it to the underside of the removable cover. I wish I had done mine like that since I went with the plate nuts. As far as the antenna, I also got this idea from another RV'er.

FUSELAGE%20147.jpg
 
Antenna mount

I'm glad y'all posted about the antenna location.

I like the idea of putting it under the tail but that is where I'm going to put the Dynon remote compass so the antenna can't go there. Looks like I'll mount the antenna on top of one of the side panels in the baggage compartment and the ELT under the baggage floor with a trap door for access.

My antenna is much different than the pictures I've seen. It looks like a long auto cell phone antenna, complete with spring coil up by the top. Not something I really want flopping around in the slip stream.

The Com and Transponder antennas will be mounted on the floor just in front of the spar. The Com antenna will most likely be mounted in front of the cover plate so it can be accessed in flight, like Doug R. recommended.
 
Bill,
There should be no reason you cant mount them both in this location. It is under the tail fairing. Keep in mind the ELT transmits nothing through this antenna until its too late to use your Dynon compass! Lets hope no one ever has to use this antenna! :p

-Jeff
 
It's not the transmission

It's the steel parts back by the compass that worries me. Besides, my antenna is longer than yours by about six inches.

Not only that, I?ve got a little engine and the less weight, the better. With putting the antenna in the baggage compartment I can significantly reduce the cable run.
 
6" longer huh? I bet ;) ... I'm not gonna go there. I hear you about the steel parts. I noticed you are doing a slider so I couldn't chime in with the location of my remote sensor.
PANEL%20197.jpg


But sounds like you have a good plan.
 
The Antenna Mount Considerations

It has been 50 years since I went through USAF Radio Tech School but I don't think the physics change much. Orientation of your antenna determines the orientation of your radiation pattern. Straight up with omnidirectional radiation is probably best if you want to be found. The transmitters I worked with back then had thousands of times the output power of these ELTs but if you short the antenna to ground it's still probably not a good thing - so the antenna should not be in contact with the longeron/canopy deck above the bagage compartment side panels. You can bend the top in but if you go to the front end of the front panel and use and angle bracket as the antenna base mount you will clear everything. It does not take much care to avoid the antenna when loading the baggage compartment if it is located in this position. My antenna is quite long so it extends well up into the RF clear canopy domain. If yours is shorter you will want to mount it higher to give it a clear view in all lateral directions for the upper part of the antenna at least.

Bob Axsom

eltantfinal0ee.jpg
 
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ELT placement

I mounted mine like Dan Checkoway, safe, secure. Not the easiest to get to but only need to get to it at annual time. Also mounted the test switch deal on the baggage bulkhead simply to reduce the wires going to the panel.

One thing to keep in mind is that the purpose of the ELT is to send a signal when something bad has happened and not for our convienence. Therefore it should be in a location to hopefully be somewhat survivable. As far back as practical would be the likely place.

Regarding the antenna, I mounted mine just behind the baggage bulkhead. Many have said it should be under the glass of the canopy. If something happens I think it will probably be exposed enough to sent the signal.

Having flown helicopter search and rescue for many years I can tell you the signal will get out pretty much where ever it is mounted. FYI, I never been to a crash site with elt signal where there were survivors. Sad but true.

Darwin N. Barrie
P19
 
Jeff,

I'm building a tip-up, not a slider. I like the mount you made for the Dynon unit but that will put it right next to the steal handle. Not sure if that is good or not. I was thinking of doing a similar mount but back one bulkhead.

Bob,

Your mount is what I was thinking. To keep it from shorting out, I could always put a plastic tube over it.

Mark,

That was where I was thinking of putting in the first place but I think I will mount it under the baggage floor.

Darwin,

You experiences are not the best. ELT?s are like insurance, the only time you ?win? is when you ?lose?. Let just hope I don?t lose in such a big way.

Since my ELT has an antenna for portable use, I would like to put it where I can get to it in the event of an accident.

Bill
 
Another potential location for the antenna is right behind the roll bar, like Dan C and Walter T. I would think that burying it down in the baggage compartment surrounded by aluminum would cut down the signal strength quite a bit.

Dave
 
Kiss

I agonized over positioning and mounting details for the ELT and antenna. Convenience won out. The box is mounted to floor mounted z-backets behind the baggage bulkhead, and the antenna is atop the fuse aft of the slider track. Ugly as hell, probably cost me at least 30 knots, but the supplied coax could reach the antenna unimpeded.

Maybe I'm getting old, cavalier, or just don't care anymore, but I won't worry about where the antenna is located with the current project - under the empennage fairing. After all, which way will it be oriented when the wreckage stops cartwheeling, and will structure distortion short out the close gaps of the installation? Rugged mount? Perhaps to protect the box from damage, but for actuation I will rely on my index finger pushing the "on" button on the way down.

Ah, the joys of experimentaldom.

John Siebold
 
RV7ator said:
...................Maybe I'm getting old, cavalier, or just don't care anymore, but I won't worry about where the antenna is located with the current project - under the empennage fairing. After all, which way will it be oriented when the wreckage stops cartwheeling, and will structure distortion short out the close gaps of the installation? ..............................John
Siebold
Click to expand...

John

You graphically describe just exactly what many of us privately think. In the end there is no perfect ELT antenna orientation, unless you can predict with 100% accuracy how a (God forbid) crash will end up. Maybe the certified crowd has to display that antenna but mine is hidden where the sun don't shine and I fervently hope it stays firmly in place that way for many years to come!

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 60 hours
RV-8A empennage done
 
ELT location solved

Thanks for all the replies to this thread.

After much thought, measuring, and test fitting I drilled and installed the ELT.

It is under the right side of the baggage compartment floor. Tomorrow night I will fabricate a door that will hinge on one side and be secured by four screws / plate nuts on the other. Click here to view picture

Yet to be decided is the location of the antenna. I'm leaning towards installing it in the baggage compartment similar to the way Bob installed his.
 
<<Bump>>

BTW, I decided to mount my ELT antenna inside the cockpit, antenna just aft of the cabin frame roll bar as Dan C. mentions on his web site.
 
ELT Coax Runs

FYI,

On Gulfstream, Hawker, and Falcon jets I am prohibited from designing any ELT installation that would have the Coax running thru/past ANY bulkheads. This usually means I have to mount the Antenna directly above the Transmitter.
 
Will Womack said:
FYI,

On Gulfstream, Hawker, and Falcon jets I am prohibited from designing any ELT installation that would have the Coax running thru/past ANY bulkheads. This usually means I have to mount the Antenna directly above the Transmitter.
Click to expand...

Will,

One question. Why?

Is that because the bulkhead could cut the ELT antenna wire in the event of an accident?
 
You got it

Yes, the entire system must be contained in one section of the fuse so that the antenna does not get cut when the fuse shears apart. Its right in the Artex manual and I also have to note it on the wiring diagram I create for the aircraft.
 
Up High

I haven't started on my RV yet, but looking through some of the pics of them is there any reason why the ELT antennae couldn't be located under the fiberglass VS tip? Of course it would have to lay horizontal. On some of the smaller RVs it looks as if the tip might not be long enough, but maybe the tip on a -10 is (?) It seems the only limitation might be how far the coax would stick out of the bottom (or "back") of the mount (i.e. interfering with the rudder counterweight)

Mark.
 
FlyerJumper said:
I haven't started on my RV yet, but looking through some of the pics of them is there any reason why the ELT antennae couldn't be located under the fiberglass VS tip? Of course it would have to lay horizontal. On some of the smaller RVs it looks as if the tip might not be long enough, but maybe the tip on a -10 is (?) It seems the only limitation might be how far the coax would stick out of the bottom (or "back") of the mount (i.e. interfering with the rudder counterweight)
Click to expand...

This location has a couple of problems:

1) The standard horizonal polarization problem you'd have in a place like the emp intersection fairing.

2) This location is _very_ likely to be clobbered if the plane noses over. Ouch.

Kevin
 
ELT Remote Required?

I got a great deal on a used Pointer ELT (Thanks Doyce!) and I am wondering if a remote panel is required? I am mounting the unit to the flap cover in the baggage area for accessibility.

Please let me know if the remote is required?

Thanks,

Pete
 
I don't know about the remote panel requirement.

I do have a suggestion for anybody mounting an Ameri-King ELT underneath the baggage floor. Make sure there's enough room for the release latch to swing open. Initially, I centered the ELT between the baggage ribs, but I couldn't operate the release latch. Mounting it slightly off-center worked out much better.

This was a very helpful thread for getting my ELT mounted.
 
petehowell said:
I got a great deal on a used Pointer ELT (Thanks Doyce!) and I am wondering if a remote panel is required? I am mounting the unit to the flap cover in the baggage area for accessibility.

Please let me know if the remote is required?

Thanks,

Pete
Click to expand...

Pete,

There is no requirement that I know of to have a panel (remote) mounted switch for your ELT. The advantage of doing this is you can tell if that hard landing was enough to set the thing off or not.

Davepar said:
I do have a suggestion for anybody mounting an Ameri-King ELT underneath the baggage floor. Make sure there's enough room for the release latch to swing open. Initially, I centered the ELT between the baggage ribs, but I couldn't operate the release latch. Mounting it slightly off-center worked out much better.

This was a very helpful thread for getting my ELT mounted.
Click to expand...

Dave,

I took the straps that hold the ELT to the tray and drilled new holes in the side of them, thus repositioning the latches so they don't interfere with the cover. I also had to cut off the emergency antenna holder. The antenna will either be stored in the glove box or I'll fabricate something to hold it in place under the floor.

BTW, I'm thinking of making another access panel on the left side to house the strobe power supply.
 
My ELT directions say it is a requirement

"There is no requirement that I know of to have a panel (remote) mounted switch for your ELT."
Click to expand...

The directions for my ELT (AmeriKing AK-450) says in big bold type that the mounting of the remote switch is not optional.
 
McFly said:
The directions for my ELT (AmeriKing AK-450) says in big bold type that the mounting of the remote switch is not optional.
Click to expand...

While that may be correct for the AK-450 to function properly, I do not believe it is an FAA requirement. If it were a requirement, how could they sell and install ELT's like this that don't have a provision for a panel mounted display / controller?

I seem to remember seeing an RV-6 with the remote ELT panel installed in the aft baggage compartment bulkhead. So although they had it installed, it wasn?t installed in the panel. I suspect this was done to make the wire run easier but I really don?t know.

FYI, not all aircraft need ELTs. Single seaters are excluded and I THINK you don't need them if you never travel more than 50 miles from your home base but I'm not sure on that.

Maybe Mel can clear that up.
 
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Remote switch

I believe that if your ELT was designed and sold with the remote switch, you would have to use it. Remember that when the ELT was certified it was either with or without a switch. If you simply threw the switch away, you would no longer have a TSO'd ELT.

BTW, I have access to previously flown (used) ELTs that were removed from various jet aircraft. These are 121.5 units that were upgraded to 604 with nav interface. I will be installing an ELT that came out of a Hawker in my -7. As long as I use the remote switch that came with it originally and install it per the installation instructions, and I have a new battery, it will be legal.
 
ELT Switch Requirements

A change was made as part of TSO C91a (published 4/29/85) to require a remote mounted ELT switch. The requirement is outlined in RTCA/DO-183, Section 2.1.12 and DO-204, Section 2.2.6.

The previous TSO (C91) did not have the requirement for remote-mounted switch. The FAA mandated that TSO C91-compliant ELTs not be used for new installations after June 21, 1995.

Scott
7A
 
tx_jayhawk said:
A change was made as part of TSO C91a (published 4/29/85) to require a remote mounted ELT switch. The requirement is outlined in RTCA/DO-183, Section 2.1.12 and DO-204, Section 2.2.6.

The previous TSO (C91) did not have the requirement for remote-mounted switch. The FAA mandated that TSO C91-compliant ELTs not be used for new installations after June 21, 1995.

Scott
7A
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. Thanks for the note Scott.

The key wording here is "new installations", the older style ELT's must be for replacement use only. I'm guessing here.

McFly, thanks for bringing this up.
 
All new ELT installations must meet TSO-C91a. This TSO requires that a remote be installed within easy viewing and reach of the PIC. (The baggage bulkhead mounting would not comply with this reg.) AC91.207-1 para 7 states that if you have a TSO-C91 ELT, you may replace it with the same make and model ELT. If you cannot obtain the same make and model, you will need to perform a new installation, therefore requiring compliance with TSO-C91a.
Mel...DAR
 
N941WR said:
Must add a million and one plate nuts (weight) to the floor
Click to expand...
You know, if you like the idea, go ahead. I just finished "nutplating" that whole section, mindful of the folks who said it would add significant weight. Nahhhhhhh. I can't imagine it was a significant amount.

That said, are there considerationsd to be made regarding the "protection" of the unit. In other words, if you put it in the baggage floor, the odds are it's going to get beaten up pretty good on any emergency landing, as opposed to , say, mounting it on a sidewall or something.

Or are they tough enough to take anything like that?

By the way, first person to write an exhaustive guide to planning for and installing all the stuff that Van's doesn't sell you, that you need (or would want) to fly, gets all of my money.
 
Bob Collins said:
That said, are there considerationsd to be made regarding the "protection" of the unit. In other words, if you put it in the baggage floor, the odds are it's going to get beaten up pretty good on any emergency landing, as opposed to , say, mounting it on a sidewall or something.
Click to expand...

I think most people mount them under the baggage floor, one bay left or right of the center tunnel. Of course that either requires screwing down the baggage floor or making an access cover.

By the way, first person to write an exhaustive guide to planning for and installing all the stuff that Van's doesn't sell you, that you need (or would want) to fly, gets all of my money.
Click to expand...

I'll donate to that cause, too. I remember thinking when I started this project that the instructions seemed way too long. Now I'm thinking they're way too short. I still have a lot left to do, and there aren't many instruction pages left. Luckily Dan's site and many others fill in most of the details.
 
Even though there is a lot of talk on this board about mounting the ELT under the baggage floor, I inspect a LOT of RVs and I find very few mounted there. As a matter of fact, I have done well over 100 RVs and have only come accross 1 or 2 done this way. Most people either mount them on top of the baggage floor, on the baggage side wall, or behind the baggage bulkhead. Behind the baggage bulkhead is the most common place.
Mel...DAR
 
Thanks for that perspective Mel. I should have said that I've noticed on the web sites that more builders are putting the ELT below the floor than in the baggage compartment. Maybe it's a new trend. Or a trend among the technically-saavy builder. :cool: Behind the baggage bulkhead is definitely popular as well.

Personally, I'm trying to get the weight forward and the ELT more accessible.
 
ELT antennae aft of Bulkhead? acceptable?

eltantennae8wl.jpg


I know someone who would like to know if this location for the ELT antennae is this going to work?
 
Elt antenna location

Hi Mark,

I put mine there also. Some have said it should be under glass or in the tail under the tail fairing. I figured if something happens it will be exposed enough too work. Tests show it works fine there.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
 
Here's where I mounted mine... pic

I mounted my ELT on the R/S of the flap housing behind the passenger seat. I back riveted a .032 doubler to the flap housing skin and used a few more screws around its perimeter to make it rigid and mounted the ELT base to that. There is a remote switch in the panel on the R/S as well (above the hobbs). The antenna is mounted behind the roll bar of the tip up canopy (note black coax run from ELT to ant area).

http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eltstrobemount8qc.jpg
http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc013656ng.jpg

You can see my strobe power supply is mounted on the floor beside the ELT. I did this to keep weight out of the rear fuselage as I already have my Trutrak pitch servo back there. Also, if I hit anything hard enough to destroy this area... well, the ELT will be useful for locating a smoking crater and that's about it.

The area I used is usually dead space on most RV's (at least what i've seen at Sun and Fun, and OSH and they can be serviced very easily here.

Jeff - N247DE 20hrs flying
 
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