apkp777

Well Known Member
Hey all,

I need to buy an ELT. The classic AmeriKing 150 is only $150 the 406's are $$$$.

Do I really need to spend an extra $6 or $700 on a 406?
 
In the interest of lighting a match to find a gas leak....


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Plane-crash probe to urge new tracking system; Report on Pacific Coastal crash will call for GPS technology that can find downed aircraft within minutes, airline officials say

The Globe And Mail
Tue Sep 22 2009
Page: S3
Section: British Columbia News
Byline: Brennan Clarke
Dateline: VICTORIA
Source: Special to The Globe and Mail

VICTORIA -- An upcoming Transportation Safety Board report into a deadly Pacific Coastal Airlines accident in August, 2008, will call for the increased use of new GPS-based flight-tracking systems capable of locating downed planes and survivors within minutes of a crash, company officials said.

Vince Crooks, Pacific Coastal's director of flight operations, said TSB investigators have expressed concern about the failure of the plane's electronic locator transmitter (ELT), a Transport Canada-mandated device designed to broadcast a radio signal when a plane goes down.

"Several of the investigators have told me they are very much in support of the new tracking systems," Mr. Crooks said. "I believe the report they're going to submit will ask the government to make some changes so that tracking systems are more accepted."

Mr. Crooks said Pacific Coastal voluntarily installed digital tracking systems on all 16 of its planes in the aftermath of the August, 2008, crash and a second accident in mid-November of last year, both of which left critically injured survivors stranded in the wilderness for hours.

"We were already considering the idea of putting them on our planes, and when the first accident happened, we said, 'We've got to do something immediately,' " he said. "Ironically, the proposals we sent out came back the week of the second accident."



On Aug. 5, 2008, a Pacific Coastal Grumman Goose crashed and burned in a heavily wooded area outside Port Hardy, killing five of the seven people on board and destroying the plane's ELT.

Searchers located the wreck within eight hours, but only after one of the survivors, Campbell River resident Bob Pomponio, scrambled to a nearby hilltop and used the weak signal on his cellphone to text message a friend.

"Without him texting from his cellphone, it could have been days before we found them, and one of the survivors [Squamish resident Lorne Clowers] was seriously injured, so the outcome could have been different," Mr. Crooks said.

Tragedy struck Pacific Coastal again in November, when a Grumman Goose carrying eight people slammed into a steep hillside on the Sunshine Coast. The lone survivor, suffering from severe burns, scrambled down a steep creek bed for 2? hours before he was spotted by a Coast Guard rescue vessel.

Pacific Coastal's new tracking system, made by Victoria-based Latitude Technologies, automatically broadcasts critical flight data via satellite directly to the e-mail accounts of senior airline company managers.

"Data bursts" detailing a flight's exact co-ordinates, airspeed, altitude, fuel reserves and other data can be programmed to arrive every 10 seconds to every two hours.

"We have airplanes spread all over the province, and it's pretty easy now to log on and see exactly where they are, right up to the minute," Mr. Crooks said.

Last December, the TSB issued a three-page safety advisory on the Port Hardy crash focusing specifically on ELT failures and identifying GPS-linked satellite tracking systems as an option to improve "flight-following capability. "

Between January, 2007, and December, 2008, the agency documented "30 of 97 occurrences" in which ELTs were damaged, destroyed or failed to activate, "resulting in a failure rate of about 31 per cent," the advisory said.

"There is no requirement for [a GPS-linked] system to survive an accident as it automatically provides valuable information about the flight prior to the crash," the advisory noted.

TSB officials declined to speculate on the contents of the upcoming report - a preliminary draft is due some time this fall - but acknowledged that the safety advisory provides an accurate snapshot of the key issues.

Transport Canada, the ministry responsible for enacting air safety regulations, has no immediate plans to embrace the new technology.

Ministry spokesman Brad McNulty said policies regarding mandatory flight- following equipment are "under review," but was unable to confirm whether GPS- based systems are among the options being considered.

The lack of official recognition hasn't stopped air carriers from jumping on board. Latitude Technologies, formed just eight years ago, boasts an impressive client, list including Conair, Canadian Helicopters, Wal-Mart, Zimex and the U. S. Drug Enforcement Agency.

Retailing for about $5,000, a digital tracking system can cost three times as much as a high-end ELT. But for Pacific Coastal, a family-run airline that was devastated by last year's tragic events, it's small price to pay for peace of mind.

"We had two accidents, and, in both cases, the ELTs didn't work," Mr. Crooks said. "You can spend all you want on an ELT and if it doesn't work, it's wasted money."
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The regs say you must have an ELT installed per Manufactures instructions.
I was faced with the same decision. I bought a 121.5 ELT even though
I know it is not monitored and probably won't work very well. My hope is
that the 406 ELT's will come way down in price. In the mean time, I have
a McMurdo PLB (gps enabled). Let's hope if I need it, I'm able to activate it.
The PLB stays in the airplane, but we can take it with us everywhere.
 
Suggestion

Buy the following

1) Cheap 121.5 MHz ELT

2) Spot system

Note that some countries around the US may require 406 MHz ELTs in the future to access their airspace.
 
Buy the following

1) Cheap 121.5 MHz ELT

2) Spot system

Note that some countries around the US may require 406 MHz ELTs in the future to access their airspace.
Just got an e-mail from the Soaring Society of America that included this:

"It's late in the day, and one of your sailplane pilots has not returned - what to do? If he or she is one of the growing numbers of pilots equipped with a SPOT? satellite tracking device, an APRS (ham-radio only) or other personal Tracker beacon (PLB), and has updated his or her SSA profile with the information, then you may be able to quickly access the latest tracking information on the pilot through the SSA's new public Sailplane Tracker List."


Very interesting idea.
 
How Long Do You Want To Wait

The decision really depends on how long you want to wait for rescue if a search is required to find you.

No big surprise here but 121.5 is not monitored by the SARSAT system anymore so the only way someone will even know to look for you is some airline passing overheard is monitoring Guard or another astute private pilot monitoring 121.5 calls it in.

AFRCC has not been giving out many missions lately just on a report of a 121.5 ELT signal so even with a report from one of the above, the AFRCC may not launch a mission to find you.

As to Spot and other types of PLB's, they work fine except for two big problems. On the Spot, it must be clear to the sky. Being upside down in your crashed RV isn't going to help you if you push the panic button after the fact. On PLB's, you need to activate it which may be problematic in some situations and your attention in an emergency should really be on flying the airplane not fiddling around to push the button. For the price of a PLB or Spot with subscription you may as well just get the 406 beacon. Not that either of these are not good alternate solutions but a 406 ELT is a better solution.

So far I only have a 121.5 ELT and waiting for prices to drop. A 406 is definitely a better choice and when I can afford it I'll change it out.

So, here you have the options but the decision on the value of your life is really yours.
 
I've been waiting for the ACK E-04 406MHz ELT to be released. It's been delayed a number of times, but I'm sure it will be out before my airplane flies.

schu
 
406...

If you can afford it, get the 406, on the S-92 with the FMS (gps) enabled, the gps position is transmitted along with the Acft ID. The 121.5 transmitters are not that easy to find. I've never had a spot but it looks like that would be a big step in the right direction. Merl should have an affordable 406 elt by now. I'll call and find out.
Best
Brian
 
Interesting point of view from a CAP pilot. I am assuming from his comments that his life is not worth the current price of a 406 MHz ELT.

Can anyone prove that 406 MHz ELTs are close to 100% activating in all crashes?

If not, then they are as unreliable as 121.5 MHz ELTs.

Guess what Spot (or APRS) does. They provide GPS defined positions at some predetermined interval. No waiting for a satellite to fly overhead or geo satellite to pick up a signal with embedded GPS.

My opinionated opinion is that ELTs are just mandated dead weight. I use flight following. At some point I need to install an APRS system.

I also have a GPS equipped 406 MHz PLB. Yes it has to be manually activated and NO....it does not leave breadcrumbs like Spot or APRS.
 
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reliability

I believe the G-switch mechanisim is essentially the same on the new 406's as the older 121.5's. Therefore, the reliability will not be 100% on activation. Because the new ones still need an antenna fixed to the airframe, the odds of it too surviving is the same whether 406 or 121.5. This may be the best "automatic" alerting system for a crash but not the only way of increasing your timely rescue. PLB, flight following, SPOT (on breadcrumb mode) and others in addition to the ELT is better than just an ELT, no matter what it's features.

Bevan
 
Hmmm, lot's of discussion. It's hard to spend the cash on a 406 that there is no guarantee will activate.

I see several times when an ELT will activate

1. CFIT - I am dead, leave me in my plane (406 and 121.5 equally useless)
2. Hard landing - Near an airport so they'll be someone nearby (406 and 121.5 equally useless)
3. Off field landing (wadded up) - (406 probably will get me help sooner and 121.5 useless, mayday and position report very effective)
4. Unintentional (my son, "hey dad what's this switch do?") (406 - I am in trouble, 121.5 not a problem)
 
Hmmm, lot's of discussion. It's hard to spend the cash on a 406 that there is no guarantee will activate.

I see several times when an ELT will activate

1. CFIT - I am dead, leave me in my plane (406 and 121.5 equally useless)
2. Hard landing - Near an airport so they'll be someone nearby (406 and 121.5 equally useless)
3. Off field landing (wadded up) - (406 probably will get me help sooner and 121.5 useless, mayday and position report very effective)
4. Unintentional (my son, "hey dad what's this switch do?") (406 - I am in trouble, 121.5 not a problem)

Tony, several comments about your comments:

1) If Steve Fossett had Spot or APRS, he could have been found very quickly...even though he was dead. No one would spend that much time looking for me of course.

2) Read about the guy on an RV8 that landed/crashed just short of an airport in the northwest a week or so ago.

http://tinyurl.com/ykhvcov

3) PLB will work as well

4) Good question. Since they may call you it may be different. Someone should ask about this scenario.