java

java

Well Known Member
OK. I've done some reading, got the Aero-electric book, have shamelessly poached some Excel based load spreadsheets, and have looked at numerous diagrams. I still find it a bit daunting to sit down and start doodling my own, however.

I notice some builders have very clean looking diagrams, and I assume they must have used some specialized software to draw them. Does something exist (free or cheap) that would help me? (Google wasn't much help). Of course, I could do it with pencil and paper, but I'm likely to have to redo it (several times?) and changes are generally easier on screen than on paper.

Failing that, is there a good legend of symbols and standards for an aircraft electrical system diagram somewhere? Again, I can interpolate from various sample diagrams, but it would be easier if there is a standard to refer to.

I don't need this to be perfect, but want something that I (and perhaps others) will be able to understand a few years down the road when making modifications.
 
Ditto the suggestion to use ExpressSCH (the schematic-capture portion of the ExpressPCB package). I used it to create my electrical system diagrams and I'm satisfied with the results.

Hmm, I should make my custom-made symbols available for others to use. I wonder if Doug has a section on the site where people could contribute theirs...?

mcb
 
Matt, that is awesome. Tell me what you need to store diagrams and I'll make it. Assuming a page with all the symbols and descriptions? Maybe a downloadable zip file? You send me the images and I'll start a section with descriptions (where's that old diagraming manual?). I forgot half of it...

Awesome.

b,
d
 
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Does something exist (free or cheap) that would help me?
Click to expand...

If you check the Aero Electric web site's download section
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html
you'll find a free downloadable image of a CD ROM that Bob sells. On it is a public domain copy of TurboCad. It's a pretty old version (6.5 I think), but more than capable for the kinds of things we are doing. Also in the CD image is a library of Bob's symbols. If I remember correctly, this version lets you read AutoCAD files, which is what Bob uses on AeroElectric.com. There are also free tutorials on the web for TurboCad.

ExpressPCB/Express Schematic are much easier to use, but I think TurboCad has more options (in fact, it might be overkill). You pay your money and take your choice. Wait...you don't even pay your money, just make your choice.

Hope this helps
 
VAF works again...

Thanks Guys,

Vern... your link looks to be very handy with symbols, sample diagram and link to the software all in one place. Just what I needed.
 
Jase,
Do you have Visio?
I would not go out and buy it, but often folks get it at work and so it might just be available to you. I did 2 planes worth and found it to be easy to use.
It has built in electrical stuff, symbols, objects and so forth. Here is an example of what it can do easily. If you can operate a MS office product like Word, you can do this.
serialinterconnect.gif

And This
sticknrelays.gif

And This
fuses.gif

And This
panel_small.jpg
 
custom symbols

I also used express PCB and Matt sent me his custom symbols that I added to Verns, I have also built some of my own for my particular schematic (modified Z-11). I am working on version 3 of mine as I am making some changes as I wire everything together and think about stuff some more (as well as learn along the way) and this will be posted. My schematic is linked via my blog and I think a central repository of symbols and web links to schematics would be useful.
Links could include a brief description of the equipment fit and design rational of the builder to assist the new builder in which links to visit.
 
DeltaRomeo said:
Matt, that is awesome. Tell me what you need to store diagrams and I'll make it. Assuming a page with all the symbols and descriptions? Maybe a downloadable zip file?
Click to expand...

I think that ExpressSCH actually stores each custom symbol in a separate file, which make for super easy pick-and-choose sharing. I could see a page with a gif of the schematic symbol (easy to get by grabbing a screenshot of the symbol library window), a brief description, and a link to download it... I'm sure it could be database-ified as well if you really wanted to get into it. I will clean up what I have and send it to you tonight.

Cool! Sharing is fun, kids! :)

mcb
 
java said:
Thanks Guys,

Vern... your link looks to be very handy with symbols, sample diagram and link to the software all in one place. Just what I needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll post my current version today. A few changes-- I just like to have it reflect my current flying airplane.


V
 
this is a re-post from another topic I posted on:

Here is a link for a FREE program for doing diagrams. It is quite well known among the open-source world: Dia

It is available for windows too:
http://sourceforge.net/project/down...me=dia-setup-0.96.1-7.exe&use_mirror=internap
(includes the required gtk runtime environment)

further info at:
http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/
or
http://live.gnome.org/Dia

"Dia is roughly inspired by the commercial Windows program 'Visio', though more geared towards informal diagrams for casual use. It can be used to draw many different kinds of diagrams. It currently has special objects to help draw entity relationship diagrams, UML diagrams, flowcharts, network diagrams, and many other diagrams. It is also possible to add support for new shapes by writing simple XML files, using a subset of SVG to draw the shape.

It can load and save diagrams to a custom XML format (gzipped by default, to save space), can export diagrams to a number of formats, including EPS, SVG, XFIG, WMF and PNG, and can print diagrams (including ones that span multiple pages)."
 
Kahuna said:
Jase,
Do you have Visio?
[snip]
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, no. I have had it in the past, and had thought it might work, but wasn't aware it had suitable symbols included.

Thanks Kahuna et al. Lot's of good stuff coming in this thread.
 
No Response

Mike S said:
Doug, this would tie in well with the ideas expressed it the thread titled "wire book".

Just in case you might have missed it------------

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=22789&highlight=wirebook
Click to expand...

Mike, I am still waiting for Doug to respond. I sent him a personal email a couple of days ago.

To me, and MANY others, it is daunting to design and catalog the wiring schematics for an aircraft. That was the premise of the Wirebook repository idea. I am more than happy to host it on my site but thought that Doug would accomodate it for the benefit of all the VAF users.

Hopefully we can move forward with the idea soon.
 
schematic capture

i bought the cheap "turbo-cad" to do my schematics. maybe it's because i'm used to the schematic capture software we use at my job (i.c. design -- mentor graphics and cadence tools), but i found the turbo-cad solution to be quite cumbersome. i originally got it so i could use some of the library components from bob knuckoll's site, but wound up creating most of my own library components (or highly modifying his.) if i had it to do over again, i would probably opt for the "express pcb" solution. (or see if i could find some kind of dos emulator and run my old "orcad" program.) but the diagrams are done now, and i see only minor modifications in the future.
mho, ymmv, all the usual disclaimers.
 
Snapping to a grid...

johnp said:
i bought the cheap "turbo-cad" to do my schematics. maybe it's because i'm used to the schematic capture software we use at my job (i.c. design -- mentor graphics and cadence tools), but i found the turbo-cad solution to be quite cumbersome. i originally got it so i could use some of the library components from bob knuckoll's site, but wound up creating most of my own library components (or highly modifying his.) if i had it to do over again, i would probably opt for the "express pcb" solution. (or see if i could find some kind of dos emulator and run my old "orcad" program.) but the diagrams are done now, and i see only minor modifications in the future.
mho, ymmv, all the usual disclaimers.
Click to expand...

John... I am also familiar with Mentor's schematic tools and also bought TurboCad to use Bob's files.

I had the same troubles, and I think it can be traced to lack of standards, perhaps caused by the .dxf to TurboCad translation.

You need to do all schematic drawing in a "snap" mode on a pre-set grid.

This should be possible in all drafting and most sketching software, it may just be called something different..... All symbols also need to snap to this grid in such a way that their connection points fall on the grid. This makes adding lines and symbols a snap....:) ...and greatly simplifies/reduces the overall effort.

I chose a 0.1 inch grid and an 11 x 17 paper size. Text at about 0.063 actual size. Keep lines 2 grid points apart where possible. This makes nice legible prints at 11 x 17 - which my HP printer will do - and is also legible printed out on letter size paper.

Any library set up as mentioned in this thread should define a paper, grid and text size for others to copy....

gil A

PS TurboCAD is a good program, and can be bought on e-bay for $15-$20 for a one to two version old copy... still much better than the "free" version mentioned earlier.
 
Symbols

I've used Verns links for Express Sch and all that stuff works, but the custom symbols won't open. I get a message that they aren't a valid SCH file!
Anybody else having this problem.
I'm already starting to forget why I wired it that way!!!!
 
Jon,

You have to do a couple of things to get Vern's symbols to work.

1. Unzip the file.

2. Copy all of the unzipped items into the "sch components" library. This is a folder inside the "express pcb" progam folder.

Then you can use them.

Craig
 
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