Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
IMG_6539.jpg


I have been flying with the original GRT EFIS now for a bit more than two years, and have been extremely happy with the system. When Grand Rapids announced that they were working on a High Resolution screen, I didn’t give it a lot of thought, being satisfied with the original resolution screen which satisfied all of the functions that I needed. However, the newer screens are a bit brighter, and that is always attractive – even though I picked the GRT’s at Oshkosh several years ago after doing direct sunlight readability comparisons to the other systems available at the time, and finding that GRT was the best (to my eyes).

A couple of weeks ago, I was chatting with Mark at GRT about beta-testing their new RAIM GPS module, and he asked if I thought I could put two of the new displays in a vertical stack in the RV-8 panel. The new display bezels are a half inch higher than the old ones, making for a total new height of an inch. I told him that I thought it would be tight, but that I was willing to give it a try. The first step was repackaging my annunciator panel to fit in an empty spot on the right side of the panel, as I was going to need that 5/8” strip across the top. I dropped the bottom edge of the EFIS units about 1/16”,and took the rest out of the top of the stack – I had to trim the panel attaching flange just a touch to allow clearance, but that was easily reinforced.

A box with two new HS displays showed up on my doorstep on Friday, but since Louise was in town, I put them on the bench so that we could enjoy a flying trip on Saturday. After dropping her off at Hobby on Sunday morning for her SWA flight home (the weekend was too short for the RV to work for the long trip from D.C.), I headed to the airport with the new toys. Of course, the weather was nice enough to fly a bit, so that came first, then it was time to get to work! The panel came out in about 5 minutes, and out came the old displays. I enlarged the main EFIS hole and drilled for new nutserts where the HS displays needed them. Interestingly enough, the bottom pair of holes was in the same place, and all the rest “missed” the holes for the old displays, so I left those nutserts in place as well, so I could swap back and forth if I wanted.

Cutting the hole for the new annunciator was straightforward using a cut-of wheel on the Dremel, and after two hours work, the panel mods were pretty much done. I transferred the ARINC and RAIM GPS modules from the old displays to the new ones, and opened up the cases to move the SD cards that hold the terrain database as well. I had previously backed up the old unit’s configuration files to thumb drives, so I uploaded those configs to the new units using the bench-top power supply. I spent a half hour replacing some of the harness cable ties with lacing cord, “just because”, and then remounted the panel in the plane.

The only small problem I encountered was with the deeper HS cases (about ¾”), the connector back shells interfered with the mount for my AHRS (mounted directly ahead of the display units). I removed the back shells, added a strain-relief loop to the cable, and the assembly was back on track. I’ll look for short back shells in the future. A quick “power up” test confirmed that the units were not only working, but were properly configured (although the new displays offer a few options that will want to make me reset some defaults to make the most use of them), so all of the elements of the avionics system (EFIS, EIS, GPS, A/P, etc) were talking. The new annunciator checked out perfectly, and I was ready for a trip around the pattern. The only thing not yet up and running was the RAIM GPS, and I probably have some additional configuring to do to get that on line. (It ran fine on the ground after finding the right settings, but I noticed that it wasn’t outputting position in the air – I probably just haven’t fiddled with it enough!)

My initial impression of the displays are quite positive – clear, crisp, and bright! While I still think that the original displays are quite adequate, the new ones are better, and allow a strip of engine instrumentation to be placed underneath the PFD – very useful. My other favorite new feature is the ability to look at both the CHT and ET time graph’s simultaneously – once you’ve used these plots, the old fashioned bar graphs will just never do. Leaning with a time-graph of the EGT’s is just so intuitive (at least for an engineer!).

The bottom line is that you CAN fit two HS displays vertically in an -8 panel, and there is sufficient structure to make it work. The new displays are bright and crisp, and because they have a little more real estate, they allow a little more information on each page. Best of all….while the HS displays use the same processor as the older Horizon 1’s, they will share display bezels with the newer HX displays that have a faster processor. So once you have built the panel to accommodate the HS displays, the new HX’s will slip right in….subject to CFO approval, of course….;)

More to come when I have some real flight experience behind the new displays!

Here's a close-up of the displays:
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You can go HERE for a few more pictures of the panel with different displays if you're curious. There are an awful lot of potential combinations of data - this is a very tiny sampe!

(You can go to my "virtual hangar" page to see a "before" picture)
 
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Yes....they 'fit'. But.....you RV8 drivers shouldn't rule out putting the screens side by side. I tried them 'every which way' in my Rocket and definitely like them side by side. the panel looks a LOT less crowded that way and still left plenty of room for a 340/430/327/sl40 and 4 back-ups. Anyway....just another option.

Also.....I notice Mr. Dye has the old style LED's for trim. The GRT units do a nice job of displaying your pitch/roll trim and even a neat flap position indicator on the PFD and/or the Engine monitor page.....very simple to wire and the displays are much brighter then the old LED's. Plus you don't have the LED's taking up space in your panel.

Thanks for posting your pics Paul....I'm sure the RV8 guys will appreciate them.
 
Thanks!

Thanks very much for posting that, Paul.

I have one complaint, though. Your postings always cost me money, or at least cause me to have to explain to my friends and family why I'm always carrying around color print-outs of various VAF discussion threads. :D But thanks for providing near constant pictorial motivation.

I was just cutting holes in my blank panel for those very EFIS displays. Nice to know they actually will fit.

(Nice job with your retrofit, by the way. It's not often someone can make a change like that without cutting a lot more metal than you did!)
 
Also.....I notice Mr. Dye has the old style LED's for trim. The GRT units do a nice job of displaying your pitch/roll trim and even a neat flap position indicator on the PFD and/or the Engine monitor page.....very simple to wire and the displays are much brighter then the old LED's. Plus you don't have the LED's taking up space in your panel.

You're right Rick - and if the GRT's had had the trim display capability when I was building, I wouldn't have installed the LED indicators.....but things change so fast! Now I have them and it would leave a hole to take them out.....so maybe in the next incarnation!

Paul
 
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Paul -

Nice posts. The new GRT products look nice and are trying to keep up with AFS. The GRT product is more modular and functional at the moment, but the AFS screens (particularly the 8.4") are hard to beat. AFS also does some innovative stuff, like the screen with the moving map and AS and ALT tapes overlaying it.

It's good to have competition, we all win.

TODR
 
Paul, in terms of brightness, readability, resolution, and visual satisfaction, how do the GRT HS screens compare with the current offering from AFS.


To be honest Bob, I have not had a chance to do a first-hand, side-by-side comparison, between GRT and AFS, so I really can't tell you anything. I've seen a couple of AFS units doing Tech Counselor visits, but none have been powered up.

Maybe someone should organize a "display-off" at SnF or Oshkosh, where everyone brought their displays to one booth and let the public see them in a direct comparison. (not a feature comparison, just looking at display technology.....)

Paul
 
To be honest Bob, I have not had a chance to do a first-hand, side-by-side comparison, between GRT and AFS, so I really can't tell you anything. I've seen a couple of AFS units doing Tech Counselor visits, but none have been powered up.

Maybe someone should organize a "display-off" at SnF or Oshkosh, where everyone brought their displays to one booth and let the public see them in a direct comparison. (not a feature comparison, just looking at display technology.....)

Paul

Wait Until OSH and you'll see just that! We're thinking really hard about making one big panel full of EFISes side by side for everyone to see/touch/play with all in one spot. I just have to get all the EFIS mfgrs on board!

Cheers,
Stein

PS....it's awful to already have to be thinking of OSH this early in the year...when the high temp here in 2 days is supposed to once again be a whopping SEVEN degrees! :)
 
Vals' new panel

Iron,
I told you at LOE 2006 you had set the "Gold Standard" for RV-8 panels...and now you've gone and made it better!

I'm just going to shamelessly copy your entire panel when I get to that point... :D
 
Flight Report

Copy away Michael...;)

I had a little time this evening between work and sunset, so I quick headed out to the airport to see if I could get the configurations finalized and see how it all flew. When I booted the system up, everything was normal, including the RAIM GPS, so I guess the config was better than i thought!

I was very interested in the brightness/readability of the displays with a clear sky and low sun. I have some pretty dark sunglasses, and the old displays were right on the edge of being difficult to see with the glasses on and a bright exterior - better than most other EFIS's, and usable, but not perfect. Well, these new HS displays are wonderful in this regard! A couple years of display technology sure make a difference! All of the colors and lines were clear and easy to see, and yes, the High resolution is very pretty (not that I would take form over function of course, but if I can have both....why not?).

The extra screen real estate is great - having the strip of engine data underneath the PFD on DU #1 made much of the data that I regularly look for on the system's page unnecessary. Several parameters that i have always carried in the data block on the bottom of the PFD are now superfluous, so I was able to add in some really "nice to haves", like range remaining (now I don't have to go to another page to find that). The lower data strip is not yet configurable, but I was told that it soon will be, and that will make it even better.

The RAIM GPS functioned great - now I have a GNS 430, GPS 396, GPS 18, and the GRT RAIM GPS onboard (the -18 is now relegated to a configurable backup)....if you ever read that the Val got lost, I will have no excuse. (Heck, the Shuttle only has a three-GPS system!) I'll have to do some more work with the RAIM GPS and compare it's solution to what I get out of the 430, but I seriously doubt I will be able to tell any difference.

So, with about an hour on the new displays, I am pretty pleased. Oh, someone asked me in PM if the width is the same, and the answer is yes - I didn't have to alter my slot width at all, just the height. And you know what? I really like my new annunciator pane;l far better than the old one....:D

Paul
 
Panel Component Question

In the top picture there are two light blue and somewhat clear objects (look like portable digital storage "sticks") that are just to the right of the Aux battery switch. Mind telling me what they are?
Thanks for your help.
 
In the top picture there are two light blue and somewhat clear objects (look like portable digital storage "sticks") that are just to the right of the Aux battery switch. Mind telling me what they are?
Thanks for your help.

GRT has a USB port on the rear of the units. They sell an extension cord that will allow you to remote the port to the panel.

You are correct, memory "thumb drives".

You can update the unit operating system, or download flight data through the ports.
 
Just as Mike said - they are just little thumb drives. I don't usually fly around with them in place, but since I was doing some software configuration and saving data, I had them in on the test flight.

Paul
 
Paul
I don't want to hijack your thread but what is/are the control column stick grips on Val?
John
 
GRT RAIM GPS

That Paul Dye feller, he's got more GPSs in his RV than the space shuttle. ;)

The RAIM GPS functioned great - now I have a GNS 430, GPS 396, GPS 18, and the GRT RAIM GPS onboard (the -18 is now relegated to a configurable backup)....

Now that you have flown the new GRT HS screens a bit can you tell us how the RAIM GPS is performing compared to the other three you have on board?

Since you can't file /G based on the GRT RAIM GPS and in your case since you can file /G using your GNS 430 the big question is...

...is it worth $750 when a new OEM Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz 12 channel WAAS enabled GSP costs $200 and the slower GPS 18x 12 channel WAAS enabled GSP costs $85.

Ian
RV7 slow QB.
 
Paul (and any other GRT GPS users),
Your pic with the lower unit in GPS mode - is that max display info? What does GRT include with its GPS option on the screen? Their website didn't provide much. It doesn't appear that roads, rivers, terrain etc are depicted - maybe just airports/waypoints/airspace and current route.
 
The GRT map screen can show airports, navaids, intersections, IFR fixes, instrument approaches, obstacles, terrain and with the optional weather module XM weather and TFR's. There is no land data depicted such as roads, rivers and lakes. All possible items can be turned on or off at the user's choice.

Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
 
Thanks, Martin. As for the terrain, does it show it in topo fashion, color or not? I will try and see this at Osh if possible. Mostly familiar with the G1000.
 
Terrain shows in the same fashion as on the GNS430/530 (I am not familiar with the G1000 terrain display) Here is a shot taken while flying into Anchorage from the north.

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Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
 
New features?

The latest issue of EAA Sport Aviation refers to a new Synthetic Vision feature but I didn't see anything about it on their website. Does any one know more about this capability?
 
The latest issue of EAA Sport Aviation refers to a new Synthetic Vision feature but I didn't see anything about it on their website. Does any one know more about this capability?

GRT rarely talks much about new stuff until they are ready and able to deliver it (something I really like about the company!), but they did have a preview demo of the terrain running at Oshkosh last summer. they have been working on it a lot since then, but I wouldn't expect to see pictures until they are satisfied that it is ready to go.

Paul
 
It's not ready just yet...but not too far off. It's like a lot of the recent "product announcements" you've seen here. Out in beta but not for the General Population just yet. Check back in another hour or tomorrow for some more interesting announcements. Lots to come this week - secrets and surprises from various companies!

Cheers,
Stein