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David-aviator

Well Known Member
The FAA is presently proposing two AD's, one each on ECI and Superior cylinders. See AOPA news as of May 23.

Maybe for those considering engines, pure Lycoming may not be a bad idea. They seem to have their act pretty well together these days. Two of my friends attended the engine school at the factory recently and were most impressed with the presentation.

Superior is a subsidiary part of the Thielert Aircraft Engine mess. No definitive news on whether Superior will be sucked into the financial abyss of Thielert but I don't see how they can be absolutely clear of it.

With the economy in a spin maybe there will be some good deals at OSH this year. Stay tuned.
 
How to Tell if You have ECI/Superior Cylinders

I've already received a few notes from customers inquiring about whether or not they might be affected by the proposed bulletins. If you are not quite sure what's on your engine and wondering, all ECI Lycoming cylinders have an AEL nomenclature in front of the part number and Superior Lycoming cylinders have an SL. If your engine builder provided you with a detailed parts list, it will hopefully be there. If not, a simple check is to look at the rocker box boss above the exhaust port. ECI cylinders will have the AEL and Superior will either have the Millenium insignia or an SL.

Hope this information is helpful.
 
Not Mine

I have two millennium io470 and the AD does not include me.:) Last time I looked it was 520's and turbocharged 520's and I think maybe 550's but not GTSO's
Alan
 
For ECI out of pocket cost is $800 to replace six cylinders (IO-540). Only the jugs themselves need to be sent back so one could recover some cost by selling the used valves, keepers, springs, etc.
 
Duh...

logansc said:
Any news on who's paying for if you have bad cylinders?


Lee...
Click to expand...

You are of course dear airplane owner...Well lets see, ECi says they will replace cylinders in accordance with warranty..WHich is 1 year...So if you have any in group B at 350 hours you presumably get the bill for 4 (or 6cylinders).

2000hour cylinders that you have to junk at 350 hours....Now of course now one has pressured them yet either so I don't know if they are offering a sweetner

Good deal ..NOT
 
Did the ECi Inspection

Ironically, my 6 is down for the conditional at 320 TT, 296 tach. The ECi mandatory SB did not yet apply since I had not hit 350 hours on my "Group A" cylinders. Compressions were good, ranging from 73/80 to 77/80 so I did not even have to do the bubble test. I wish the 73 was a bit higher, but I digress......

I spent some time getting the serial numbers off the intake sides of the jugs and with some difficulty, I did it. Small strong flashlight at a high angle and view the area from as straight on as you can. #1 and #4 require reading through the fins, but in my case the numbers were smack between two fins. A perfect line up. For cyls 2 and 3 it required pulling Van's stock baffles away about an inch for access. Can be done.

Anyway, the SB as it stands requires me to do a compression test along with every oil change from now on - at 50 hour intervals. PITA, but I have an opportunity to go the full TBO. My cylinders were manufactured 4Q02, Titan Nickel Carbide.
 
You do..Unless you find a crack

Then presumably you junk your 351 hour cracked cylinder and pay for a new one..

Mine are all Group A too..Lets hope for the best

Frank
 
What's up at ECI?

I was just looking to buy a plane that had the ECI "Classic Cast" cylinders... the AD says they must be replaced before 800 hours. ECI was offering replacements for about $350 each.

Now they are having a proposed AD on their "Titan" cylinders?? It looks like these are all old manufacture, 2006 or before. Does anyone know if they have fixed all their problems?
 
The FAA AD gives two ranges of serial #2 for group A & B ... the original MSB from ECI gave lists of specific serial #s When I checked on this when the MSB came out originally, my serial #s were NOT on the list. Now they are solidly in the middle of the FAA's "B" list and will have to come out of service at 350 hrs presumably (which is going to be real soon). Anyone know what gives with the conflicting information ?

RV-9 ECI Tital Clyinders 301 hrs :-(

g
 
Dunno

But I would be interested to know what deal (if any) you get?....I assume yours have more than 1 years worth of service?
 
According to the Superor SB, SL36006W-A20P is an affected p/n. According to my engine records, I have SL36006W-A2 assemblies. Anyone know if I'd be affected or did I just dodge the recall bullet?

Jim
 
Bob Gordon said:
I spent some time getting the serial numbers off the intake sides of the jugs and with some difficulty, I did it. Small strong flashlight at a high angle and view the area from as straight on as you can. #1 and #4 require reading through the fins, but in my case the numbers were smack between two fins. A perfect line up. For cyls 2 and 3 it required pulling Van's stock baffles away about an inch for access. Can be done.
Click to expand...
This makes a case for doing some of the things the "big boys" do, like verifying/recording all serialized components before you install them. Makes deciding whether something like this problem applies to you or not an easier process...

Question for everyone: Do you receive a build sheet from the engine builder with part # / serial # info on it?
 
Just talked to ECI on this MSB. ECI is hoping to get their list of serial numbers included in the FAA's forthcoming AD on these cylinders (NPR comments close June 18th I think) . ECI has a specific list of numbers on the MSB whereas the FAA's NPR sports two blocks of contiguous serial #s. If ECI prevails I'm a happy camper, if they don't my clyinders have to come out and be returned since I'm right at 350 hours.

The gentleman explained that the problem was a "machining problem" that compromised the interference fit of the barrel to head. Its still a little unclear to me how they are able to isolate exactly which serial #s were so affected in the contiguous list of numbers, but I guess I'm going to have to take that "on faith".

I asked "Who's taking responsibility for this ?" and the gentleman at ECI answered "We are." Hopefully that means that they are picking up the financial cost as well as the trouble and bad press.

If anyone has more or conflicting info ... would love to hear from them.

Gerry. RV-9 N696WG
 
We are?

mistergerf said:
I asked "Who's taking responsibility for this ?" and the gentleman at ECI answered "We are." Hopefully that means that they are picking up the financial cost as well as the trouble and bad press.

If anyone has more or conflicting info ... would love to hear from them.

Gerry. RV-9 N696WG
Click to expand...

Taking responsibility can simply mean they are being a good supplier by alerting us to the potential issue...And not paying a cent!

They clearly state on the MSB that the cylinders will be replaced in accordance with their written warranty...That warranty covers bad parts for a period of 1 year...

So by what it says....They ain't paying anything...

Can you call 'em back and ask them who is paying?..Personally (mine are group A) I don't mind too much paying a prorata share based on 2000 hours...I.e I would 350/2000*cost of cylinder...but I won't be happy to get hit with the price.
 
I posted this in the other ECI cylinder thread

Mine also fell into group A, 3.5 years and 725 hrs later and no problems.... but being the anal/fantatical maintenance guy I am, I am electing to swap them out with new ECI cylinders. Talked to Joe Trapota today and the cost will be very reasonable in my opinion. They do a worksheet based on how many hours you have on the cyl's and pro-rate the cost. A new set of 4 cyl's is going to cost me 2K. I was planning a doing a top end at about 1000hrs anyway so this this is a little early and a little more $ but worth it for my piece of mind. My wife and I fly quite a bit and I just don't care to take any unnecessary risks, blowin a jug could definately ruin your day

Just as a side note ECI has always been a pleasure to work with and Joe is a stand up guy. I have a 100% ECI motor and have been totally happy with performance/customer service so no regrets here. All the engine manuf's have had there problems, I rather do cyl's R&R than a crankshaft R&R anyday
 
Today must be my lucky day. After a lot of digging and inspection, my cylinders were found not to be affected by the AD. They are from the same foundry as Class B, but predate the troublesome period....so far.

V
 
LifeofReiley said:
Ahh... but if you know the FAA and real problem with the "B" cylinders, IMHO, I would get them off my aircraft. JMHO... Get a warranty adjustment NOW.
Click to expand...

Actually, my last note was a bit garbled... My cylinders are NOT class B, but Class A. Reading the FAA document is much clearer than the ECI document.
 
I have one cylinder that falls in the 'A' group. I have yet to start my engine so it has the full one year warranty still in place. ECI is replacing the cylinder but I have to swap the valves and rockers from the original cylinder. I am getting the new cylinder, a ring set and gasket set. It is going to cost me approximately three hours labor for our local A&P to swap out the cylinder and valves.

I am completely satisfied with ECI in how they treated my situation.
 
For some of you, this is where being an experimental OWNER would prevail. Screw the AD, it's not required, have them checked, but if it's my dime, I'm not gonna scrap 350 hour cylinders because they might have a problem. Keep a close eye on them and keep flying is what I'd do.

On the other had, as a mechanic, if a customer comes in with one of these engines, i have to recommend that they comply with the SB/AD. Isn't liability a bitch?
 
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