H

Hink

Member
I'm ready to rivet the skin on my VS and was wondering when I should try to get a tech counselor to come visit. (after the skin is on the VS? after the empennage is complete? ...) I do not want to waste their time, but would like a nod that I'm on the right track.

This may be a dumb question, but here goes...

Are TC's compensated for their time? If so is this worked out upon contacting them? If not is it customary to 'tip' them?

Lastly, Would it be prudent to ask if they have RV experience, or does it matter?

Scott
 
Scott,

I've arranged for visits from my technical counselor at the completion of major stages (tail, wings, etc.) and major subassemblies (wiring, plumbing). I'll call him when I run into problems or am confused and we'll talk through a solution.

At your early stage in the project, I think it's perfectly fine for you to have a TC visit to review your work. This is when you'll be building the skills you use throughout the project, so perfecting your technique now will pay great dividends. TCs are around to help, and if you feel you need a visit, that's what they've signed up for. Also consider hosting periodic builder visits for other builders in your area. You'll get a bunch of folks who'll be more than happy to critique your work!

Feel free to ask your TC about their experience, but consider that RV experience is really not important, but experience with metal is (as opposed to wood or composite experience). Considering how many RVs are flying, I imagine it would be pretty hard to find a TC having no experience with them...

As for compensation - technical counselors are not paid or tipped. That said, I'm sure your TC would be happy to be taken out to lunch at the airport cafe!

Best of luck!
 
Kevin is right; I think most TCs would be happy to catch any problems BEFORE they happen. The only way to do that is for you to call first. There is no shame in having questions, only in not asking. Who knows, it may even save you from buying extra parts!

Bob Kelly
 
In my immediate error there are two of us working on projects. My RV-10, and another builders Sonex. We did a team visit with our tech counselor. We both were present for the other's tech counselor visit. It worked out really well, as we got to look over the others project.

A couple weeks after that, our EAA chapter did a proressive meeting where we went to see the Sonex, then my RV-10, then back to our home airport to see a Stearman rebuild, and a Jenny replica in progress.

We are in a rural area with a pretty low population, but it was great to see building alive and well.
 
I would agree that you should go ahead and schedule a TC visit at this early stage of your build. The TC may catch some early bad practices and/or put some of your concerns to rest.

This should be the beginning of a long term relationship with the TC, especially if this is your first project. And there is nothing wrong with having several TC's involved in your project. Other good times for visits are when you are moving into a different stage of the project, such as plumbing, wiring, engine systems installation, etc. Probably the most important visit is the last inspection before the DAR visit and first flight, where control systems and engine installation are carefully examined.

TC's and Flight Advisors are EAA volunteers and don't accept fees for their visits. Travel expenses are normally expected to be reimbursed especially if the TC has to travel any distance for the visit. And sometimes, if the timing is right, lunch is appreciated...
 
You can't have too many visits and not just by TCs, either. A&Ps, other builders, the more the merrier. The more eyes there are on a project means that more issues will be caught - and caught earlier, too. RV experience can be helpful but at your stage in the project sheet metal skills, riveting, and so on are good enough. Also, remember, no matter who looks at your project, you are the builder. If you get some advice that you don't agree with then get other opinions but feel free to go your own way (of course, if everyone disagrees with you bells should be going off...)

As for compensation, sometimes you have to beat your advisers away with a stick! :D TCs especially do what we do because we enjoy it, but I also get regular visits by others who are just interested in my progress. It costs nothing if an IA drops by and mentions something he noticed (though it would possibly be different if you invited him by to look at something you noticed). Lunch or coffee is always nice. Or, if you live far away from the person you are asking to drop by, you might want to at least offer to pay expenses. Chances are it'll be refused but the offer itself makes goodwill.
 
Hink said:
I'm ready to rivet the skin on my VS and was wondering when I should try to get a tech counselor to come visit.
Click to expand...

Scott, answer is "any time you feel the need". Every builder has different strengths and weak areas. Most TC's like to make an early visit to get an idea of the builder's skill/experience/talent level, and to catch fundamental errors before they multiply. Some guys will need a lot of help and some will just need somebody to call on the phone. Don't overlook the idea of throwing parts in your car and going to visit your TC. A lot of my builders are retired (and I'm not), so they just drop by my business weekdays or visit the home shop on weekends.
 
Hink said:
.....wondering when I should try to get a tech counselor to come visit.....Are TC's compensated for their time?.....prudent to ask if they have RV experience.....
Click to expand...

2yvrped.gif

Scott,

The EAA Technical Counselor program gives homebuilders an opportunity to have a second pair of practiced eyes examine their work. Hardly a time waster, I encourage you to seek several TC visits or at minimum at least three during the course of the project, particularly so before closing up structure permanently. A copy of the TC's report is forwarded to and kept on file at EAA Oshkosh. Even though I myself am a TC, I do not hesitate to ask other TC's to look over my work from time to time. A fresh perspective is always a good thing. During a visit, TC's may in good faith point out areas that need attention or even rework, but cannot force you to do anything. The program is designed to promote and enhance the safety of experimental aviation by allowing builders to take advantage of our knowledge and experience in a way that allows us to share meaningful information with the builder on a one-on-one basis.

No compensation is involved and for many reasons, there cannot be. That said, if it is hot outside it certainly doesn't hurt to offer the TC a cold beverage. If asked to do a technical counselor visit some 70 miles from home, the TC may be more inclined to agree if the builder offers to pay for the gas. Just use common sense.

Finally, I consider your last question to be extremely valid. By all means ask if the TC has sheet metal or RV experience! Because I did not know any better at the time, my first TC turned out to be an antique wood and fabric replica builder. The second TC called upon was a composite expert. Neither TC had any experience in sheet metal construction, and I ended up teaching more than I was actually advised on. So ideally, I suggest you try to locate a TC skilled in particular areas of construction you are immediately concerned with. By nature of our varied experiences and backgrounds, a good TC fit can provide you with solid expertise when dealing with specifics such fiberglass, electrical, or engine and firewall forward issues.

Bottom line: Take advantage of the Technical Counselor Program. It is one of the better benefits the EAA offers its membership whether you are affiliated with a local EAA chapter or not.
 
Rick6a said:

Finally, I consider your last question to be extremely valid. By all means ask if the TC has sheet metal or RV experience! Because I did not know any better at the time, my first TC turned out to be an antique wood and fabric replica builder. The second TC called upon was a composite expert. Neither TC had any experience in sheet metal construction, and I ended up teaching more than I was actually advised on. So ideally, I suggest you try to locate a TC skilled in particular areas of construction you are immediately concerned with. By nature of our varied experiences and backgrounds, a good TC fit can provide you with solid expertise when dealing with specifics such fiberglass, electrical, or engine and firewall forward issues.

Bottom line: Take advantage of the Technical Counselor Program. It is one of the better benefits the EAA offers its membership whether you are affiliated with a local EAA chapter or not.​
Click to expand...

Even though the first 2 TCs did not have sheet metal experience and were not in a position to give much advice, they WERE another set of eyes and might ask questions about why you did something the way you did. To put it another way, you never learn so much as when you teach.​
 
Mel said:
Even though the first 2 TCs did not have sheet metal experience and were not in a position to give much advice, they WERE another set of eyes and might ask questions about why you did something the way you did. To put it another way, you never learn so much as when you teach.
Click to expand...

Absolutely Mel - it is a good learning experience for both in any case. I really enjoy doing TC visits because I get to see other folks ideas as well as helping them to critique their own work. I am a better systems guy than I am a structures guy, and I can't look inside a composite layup to tell a person if their wing is sound - but good work is always obvious, as is poor....

Lots of times, I don't even ask for gas money if the visit is within my normal daily flying distance - although a cold drink and occasional lunch are usually not refused....;)

Paul
 
VS skin Inspection

This is the time I called my TC for the first visit. I started with my VS. I riveted the skin on but stopped at the step where you rivet on the rear spar of the VS. This allowed the TS to look at my skin rivets before things where closed up. Since it was just my VS I was able to take the parts to him to inspect.

As far as payment none required, but I did buck some for instruction with TIG welding.

Cheers
 
Hink said:
I'm ready to rivet the skin on my VS and was wondering when I should try to get a tech counselor to come visit. (after the skin is on the VS? after the empennage is complete? ...) I do not want to waste their time, but would like a nod that I'm on the right track.

This may be a dumb question, but here goes...

Are TC's compensated for their time? If so is this worked out upon contacting them? If not is it customary to 'tip' them?

Lastly, Would it be prudent to ask if they have RV experience, or does it matter?

Scott
Click to expand...

Scott,

Send me a PM if you're interested and we'll arrange something for this weekend or one evening next week...
 
Thanks!

Thanks everyone for the great input. Overall I feel pretty good about what I've done.......that makes me all the more nervous. :rolleyes:

Kyle - Sent you a PM.

Scott
 
You must log in or register to reply here.