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Paul Thomas

Well Known Member
I've been thinking about building my own aircraft. The RV line has been one of the most appealing to me, specially the 10. I know that I don't know anything when it comes down to building a plane, so I need to learn.

What's everyone opinion of the EAA workshops? Buying an empenage kit and building it under "supervision", as good as it sound is not something that appealing to me. Not only do I not have the time to go something like that for 10 straight days, but I also want to enjoy the building process. I'd also like to keep that money in my pocket (even if in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much).

Paul
 
Other than pop rivets, I had no previous riveting experience and very little experience in metal work. I attended the weekend RV assembly seminar with my hubby so I could get some insight and experience using the various tools required. My hubby was there so he could also see what was involved and could become a better helper (he has no interest in building), as I wanted him to know how to properly buck rivets. I think the RV assembly seminar is a good investment in time and will be enough tutelage for an average handy person to develop the skills needed to at least do a quick build. Most all the unusual tools needed to build an RV are used during the weekend and you should be able to tell by the end if you want to pursue building. It's a good way to see what you're in for without making a large commitment. Then you can make an informed decision if building is for you.

Good luck,

Roberta
 
Great course

Paul,

Bought the tools and emp kit and realized I didn't know a darn thing about what to do, so I was lucky there happend to be a SportAir workshop two weeks later in Arlington. The course was taught by Jack Dueck and it was the best learning experience I could have asked for! I can't say enough good things about the course. Gave me the confidence build and I was able to learn what all the tools and methods were that Vans listed in the instructions.

The only drawback I see to the course is that they don't offer enough of them around the country. I got in on a standby quota, and was lucky. Sign up for the first course you can get!

Take care,

Jim
RV-7A QB (finishing emp)
 
definitely take a builder's workshop!

Paul (and the other lurkers out there),

I have been lurking for quite a while now, somewhat skeptical if I have the skills necessary to actually build an airplane?well let me tell you that after taking Tom Emery's building workshop about 10 days ago, I am 100% confident that I can do it--and do it right the first time!

Tom methodically presented basic information, demonstrated building techniques (read: showed us how to use all of his cool tools--arh, arh, arh), supervised our construction of Van's training project, and then wrapped it up with more in depth information about hardware, certification, etc. While it would be very foolish for me to think that I now know everything required to build an RV, I do believe I have the foundation to build the tail kit the right way the first time, and safely start the journey of RV building.

In summary, I highly recommend Tom's workshop. If you don?t live within driving distance or a reasonably priced airline flight into Pittsburg?definitely find some type of builder?s workshop. I considered the upfront fee a small investment that I?m sure will pay dividends many times over in the long run--not only in real dollars, but also in confidence, tips, and the lack of frustration getting started.

Here's Tom's info.

Tom & Nickie Emery
5014 Thoms Run Road
Oakdale, PA 15071
412-257-8350 - Home
724-344-8175 - Cell
[email protected]
http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/index.html

-Jim
RV-10 lurker?soon to be builder after we move halfway across the country in a couple months.

P.S. Standard disclaimer -- no affiliation, just a satisfied customer, yada yada yada

keywords: build, builder, workshop, work-shop, work shop, beginner, building tip, BTIP, start, starting, help, assist, assistance,
 
Just took SportAir RV Assy Course, EXCELLENT

I just took the RV Assembly course at EAA in Oshkosh. It was taught by Ken Scott from Vans.

I have no experience at sheet metal and the course has made me confident enough to start, which was the point according to Ken. I was previously considering going to a builder's center, but now I know I can build the tail easy enough.

The course has a little bit of powerpoint slides, and then a short riveting demo. After that we broke into groups of two and we each built a simple little piece with a few different rivets & techniques involved.

Next (about halfway through the first day) we started on the Vans practice kit, which is a short section of a flap (I think Ken said the ribs are production RV4 flap ribs). It has 2 ribs, a spar, 4 stiffeners, and a skin.

Ken told us that we are the last group to use this kit. It is not prepunched, so you get to layout and drill all the holes (no big deal, but time consuming). He told us the kits will be changed to prepunched.

By the 2nd day we were finished, so they let us take one home (we chose to build the 2nd one there).

The best parts were:
1) Ken - great building philosophy and lots of knowledge. His compared an RV structure to a 1930's John Deere tractor, simple and solid, not like a swiss watch that most of us were thinking. Bascially, "It's only an airplane". Ken also shared his views on all the RV models, and all of the great debates (where the little wheel goes, how the canopy moves, primer, what kind of instruments, etc.) He has seen and built a lot of RVs so I felt the info was valuable. I really enjoyed that and it helped cement my decisions.

2) The tools - it was very helpful to actually use the tools before buying. Now I know what I need and what I don't. I'll be buying from one of the big tool kit places, but I will modify the tool set based on what I know.

3) The pace - it was very fast and never boring. In only two 8 hour days we went from "what is a rivet" to "give me that bucking bar". It was especially helpful to learn how to fix mistakes, and when not to try.

4) The facilities - they were excellent. I stayed in the EAA Academy lodge, beautiful clean and cheap.

The only bad part was there weren't any RV rides.

Dave
planning to start RV9A in fall (once honey-do list is cleared out)
 
RV Assembly @ OSH 2005?

IowaRV9Dreamer said:
I just took the RV Assembly course at EAA in Oshkosh. It was taught by Ken Scott from Vans.
Dave
planning to start RV9A in fall (once honey-do list is cleared out)
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Dave,
Do you know if Vans is sponsoring another course at OSH this year? I couldn't find it on the Airventure website (but that's nothing new!) The course sounds like it is just what I need to start my new -10.
Mark
 
Another option

Paul (and the other lurkers out there),

Get in touch with your local EAA chapter, if you haven?t already, and ask them who in your area is building an RV. Contact that person and ask them if they can give you some basic lessons in building.

I have given three such lessons and all have been very appreciative.

All I ask is they stop by the hardware store and buy some aluminum and bring their tools, if they have them.

I show them how to cut, deburr, drill, deburr, dimple, and rivet. We talk about corrosion protection options, how to log time, building options, and more options.

The session usually takes about four hours and then there are the follow-up calls when the kit arrives, not to mention what additional tools they should buy or borrow.

As another note, our chapter (309) built an RV-6A as a club project. This gave a lot of us in the Charlotte area experience working with aluminum. Unfortunately EAA National does not like local chapters to own airplanes so we eBay?ed the thing after it was completed but before we installed the engine, instruments, or other systems.) The project turned out to be a good moneymaker for the club and drew in a lot of new members, myself included.

309 also sponsors builder workshops once a year for people interested in learning the basics.

What I?m saying is, one of the chapters in you area might do something like that so you will not have to take off ten days to build your tail.
 
Another viewpoint

Paul,

Since my experience was a little different, I?ll throw it out there. I actually learned how to rivet at Oshkosh during the air show at one of the forums. I think that it was about ? hour of presentation and ? hour of building a (very) miniature wing spar section. We drilled, clecoed, deburred, dimpled, countersunk and riveted with a rivet gun and bucking bar.

Six months later I got my emp kit for my RV-8A. I practiced on some scrap that Van?s supplies in the kit. I was happy with the results, so I started building the airplane. 1.5 years later, I?m on the fuselage and don?t regret not going to the workshop. I?m a mechanical engineer with decent shop skills, but would hardly call myself a master craftsman ? I just take my time. Also, I researched (and continue to) aircraft standards and techniques from other builders and found most things to be fairly straight forward.

I?m certainly not trying to talk you out of the workshop since I hear a lot of positive feedback. I agree with Bill Repucci that if you can find a builder to help you out, you wouldn?t have to commit the time and money to the workshop and still enjoy building your tail.

Good Luck
 
Another Option and Opinion

Hi Guys,

I am a fairly handy guy with tools and DYI, I'm also in involved in aviation as a microlight aircraft pilot, but never owned or buildt a full metal aircraft.

I went for training at Alexander Tech Center where I completed my entire tail in six days. It is a hellofa jumpstart, and it is no wasted time or effort, you complete your own tail section, so not a single hour is wasted.

When I got back home to South Africa a friend has started building without training, he spends many hours wondering how to do this and that, I regularly assist him, but his progress is still slow.

My bottom line is this:
If you want a jump start and be in a good position, get somebody in the know to spend 6 days with you learning you the ropes, or just go for the training where the work you do is on your own kit! You can do it own your own, but its going to be very slow!

The price of their training is about the same cost as the emp kit.

Kind Regards
Rudi
 
Alexander Technical Center

I went for training at Alexander Tech Center where I completed my entire tail in six days. It is a hellofa jumpstart, and it is no wasted time or effort, you complete your own tail section, so not a single hour is wasted.
Click to expand...
I agree completely with Rudi. I also attended this training session, and highly recommend it. I also have a friend with a tail kit that is still staring at parts after about a year. The experience I gained from the guys at the workshop has given me the confidence to take on the rest of the project. I do still stare at the instructions and the parts, but eventually I just get on with it.
 
Like Eric, I also drove my first rivet at the sheet metal forum at OSH. I built Van's practice project during the following winter then started my -9 emp kit in July '04. I just can't see the average guy needing to take a 2-5 day "Riveting 101" course. Of course, you'll have a completed $1400 emp kit for what, $3k? Tools not included.

my $.02
Steve
 
Steve said:
Like Eric, I also drove my first rivet at the sheet metal forum at OSH. I built Van's practice project during the following winter then started my -9 emp kit in July '04. I just can't see the average guy needing to take a 2-5 day "Riveting 101" course. Of course, you'll have a completed $1400 emp kit for what, $3k? Tools not included.

my $.02
Steve
Click to expand...
Hi Steve, and other readers

I do not want to get into a slugging match here, but I disagree with your statements and want to tell you what I got for my "completed $1400 emp kit for $3K?"

To the other members: Read what I got out of it and decide for yourself, if it is worth it!
1. The "Alexander" course is not a "2-5 day riviting 101 course", you learn all the aspects with regards to manufacturing your kit:


  • Reading Plans,
  • Correct Manufacturing technicques,
  • Riveting, Duburing,
  • Do's & Dont's; and
  • all the Tips from the lecturers that have seen more than 100 tail kits go together.
2. Tools are not included, but you get to use almost every make available Cleaveland, Avery and then you can decide yourself which ones are better! This means you can buy the tools you feel most comfortable with after you tried them out.​
3. You get to complete the Empennage kit in record time! Without screwing up a part or having to re-order a parts from vans, which cost money. Or having to drive, call or host someone for tips in your education all which cost money.

4. No time is wasted; all the work is done on parts which counts towards your own airplane.
​
Time is Money! You decide which is more important time or money.

For me it is Time...and considering I attended the training from South Africa while I was on a business trip in the USA with all the additional costs associated with being in a foreign country and getting bigger completed empennage shipped to South Africa, I still consider the school at Alexander worth every penny.

 I believe the Alexander course is the quickest and best jumpstart you can get.

You will spend time and money in your education process, if you want to self educate or go for tuition, there is no way around it!:rolleyes:

You decide how much time and how much money to spend on it.;)

Kind Regards
Rudi
 
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Alexander Tech Center

Some time back, on the old Yahoo Groups. there was an individual who posted some background info on Alexander's course. He was employed at Alexander. The best advise he had was not to buy your tools before taking the class. Since you are using their tools you find out what you like and what you don't like. That one week covers almost all of the riveting you would do on an RV. AT the begining, its more expensive, however in the long run it could be cheaper. You would spend less money on mistakes " ordering new parts plus the shipping and the down time waiting. You might spend less on tools by not buying items you really did not need.

If I were able to build now, I would build the tail at Alexander. I would then either build a complete quick build 9A there, or go to Jay Pratt's. The only draw back would be 400 miles to Atlanta, and 500 miles to Jay's.

I would spend a lot of money replacing there bucking bars, crow bars etc. since they be bent up beyond use from hitting me in the head to get my attention before or after I had screw something up.

IT NEVER HURTS TO DREAM, AT LEAST NOT AT THIS POINT!!!
 
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