G

GreggG

I'm New Here
I am hoping to start building after the New Year and was wondering if it would be worth my effort to fly to Frederick for the RV class versus just heading to OSH for the sheet metal class? I'm in Minneapolis and this will be my first project.

Thanks,
Gregg

RV-8
 
Welcome to VAF!

Gregg, welcome to the good ship VAF.

As this is your first project, I would recommend you getting help somehow-----either of the classes you mentioned, or from an EAA chapter is there is one near you. I would favor the RV specific class over the sheet metal class if you had to make a choice.

This building stuff is not all that hard, but a little guidance to get you on the right track is well worth doing. There is a link on the front page of VAF called the "White Pages" where you might be able to find someone in your local area to help get you going.
 
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class

I would certainly recommend the RV specific class. It's what I did and it was worth the effort.
 
mentor

Mike S said:
Gregg, welcome to the good ship VAF.

As this is your first project, I would recommend you getting help somehow-----either of the classes you mentioned, or from an EAA chapter is there is one near you. I would favor the RV specific class over the sheet metal class if you had to make a choice.

This building stuff is not all that hard, but a little guidance to get you on the right track is well worth doing. There is a link on the front page of VAF called the "White Pages" where you might be able to find someone in your local area to help get you going.
Click to expand...

Welcome Gregg
+1
A local mentor is worth his/her weight in gold!
Training classes are great, Vans practice kits are valuable training, but nothing beats the knowledge you will receive from a mentor. Especially the folks here.
 
Take the Sporty's RV Class

I attended the Osh workshops too, but the Sporty's Class is excellent to get your feet wet. I also asked my wife to attend and it was a great learning experience for both of us. Even if your wife doesn't help with the build, it's good for her (and you) to see what you're up against.
 
I attended both classes

As you can see from my signature line I have attended both classes and I learned something from each one of them. I first attended the sheet metal class, followed by the RV class. Here is some feedback about both of them:

Sheet metal class
- Highly recommended for exposure to a large number of different construction techniques for different parts of the airplane
- You work on a larger kit where you build what is essentially a large airfoil section with a hinged moveable control surface, and an inspection plate
- In my class we had to decide who got to keep the finished project, because you worked as a team with other builders on one project. I decided to let my partner keep the project since at the time I was already well into working on my tail kit.
-You learn the steps to create the inspection plate access holes, flanges, and cover plates, and learn how to install nut plates and screws.
-You learn the process to layup, drill, and rivet hinges

RV metal class
- At the time I took this class I was working on my Rudder, and needed to know how to roll the leading edge skins to form the rounded front end. The kit for this class includes the process of rolling the leading edges and riveting them together. The rudders and elevators all require this same technique, so it was nice to be able to practice on something else first.
- the kit is a smaller one than in the basic sheet metal class, but you get to keep this one, since everyone works on their own kit
- When you get to your trim tab you will be faced with a decision - bend the tabs according to the stock parts that you receive from the factory, or use a modified approach to fabricate some small riblets that are riveted on each end of the trim tab and on the left elevator. If you decide to do the latter, the ribs that are used in the RV kit can be used to make some of the trim tab riblets, so you can use the ones from your RV kit if you so desire.
-You learn the riveting technique to close up a trailing edge of a control surface. This is something that RV-7 and other builders have to know how to do, but I believe that the RV-8 skins are all one piece skins that are bent to final shape, so there is no riveting involved for the trailing edges of the RV-8 control surface skins. It is still good to know the technique for this.

So I found benefits to both classes, but in the end the choice is yours. I thoroughly enjoyed both of them.

Also highly recommended for getting your feet wet and then some:
Vans Tool Box Kit
Hints for homebuilders videos on the EAA web site
Mentors and EAA Chapter resources from your local area as suggested by previous posters
Build logs or Blogs from other builders - especially ones with good pictures
 
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Hook up with your local EAA chapter. I'm sure there is more than one person there who can teach you what you need to know.

I have personally taught a dozen or more prospective builders how to rivet and work with aluminum enough to get them started.

Best of luck with your project and remember, there is nothing difficult about building an airplane, just a lot of "nothing difficult"!
 
I took the sheet metal class and I think it helped get me started. It was just a start. I had never worked with sheet metal before so you need to get some of the basics of the tools you are going to be using and how to use them. After taking the class I felt like I knew more, but it still took me quite a while to feel confident in using these tools and getting nicely set rivets. Its a learning experience and it will take awhile to become good at setting rivets. The problem is that there are many many different situations that you will be setting rivets and you will need to be able to set a rivet well in all of these situations. Right handed, left handed and blind only be feel.

Make sure that you get some scrap and practice and much as your patience allows. I'm not a patient person but try to hone your skill before you have to order replacement parts.
 
My sheet metal experience

Greg,

I took the sheet metal class in October, and sounds like they made some changes since the time Bryan took it.

The class was limited to 12 people, and everyone kept/worked on their own project with their own station of tools. Now, I think each table of 4 people might have shared some 'specialty' items like a nutplate jig, but everyone had their own drill, rivet gun, clecos, etc.

The instructor said the class was changed up recently to provide an introduction into "scratch building", but they've tailored the projects to reflect more "kit-like" projects. What I mean is the sample project was match drilled and apparently very similar to RV construction. Sounds like the project with an airfoil, hinge, and inspection plate has not changed from Greg's experience. The big delta between our classes is that everyone built their own and received feedback on what was good/bad.

For someone who had zero experience with sheet metal work, I felt this class was very good. 3 of the ~15 hours (total) workshop time was in a classroom, which I felt was too much, but the rest was hands-on building with some experienced instructors. I learned a good deal and feel confident going forward with the RV kit. Your mileage may vary.

As for the RV-specific class, I did not take that so have no basis for comparison.

Others mentioned getting practice kits from vans - I'd also look at buying a trim kit. It's odds and ends leftover (I presume) of various sizes. Good to mess around with and it's cheap $5.00. Van's website is stuck in the 90's so you'll have to do some searching to find the trim kits, but if you poke around the store enough you'll find them.

In any case, everyone here is right - take a class, buy some practice kits, and hook up with EAA and you'll be good to go. Good luck
 
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N941WR said:
Hook up with your local EAA chapter. I'm sure there is more than one person there who can teach you what you need to know.

I have personally taught a dozen or more prospective builders how to rivet and work with aluminum enough to get them started.

Best of luck with your project and remember, there is nothing difficult about building an airplane, just a lot of "nothing difficult"!
Click to expand...

This is a good answer. Once you find a mentor, you can learn at your own rate on a convenient schedule. You'll have a local resource, and you'll have made a first step into networking with other builders. Also, you will be able to get started almost immediately and without the out of pocket expense of a class.
 
MN chapter of Van's Airforce

There are lots of builders in the MPLS area mnwing.org and EAA chapter 237 that meets at Anoka Co Airport.

I am going to be up there for the next 3 weeks and would be happy to meet with you and steer you in the right direction. Just let me know.

Gary Specketer
Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dragonfly,Glasair III, Glastar, RV10
770-403-three four five zero
 
My family and I took a class from Troy Grover at grovair in Indiana. It was a good weekend long class. Built a portion of an aileron. It is a little closer than MD. I think he is still doing classes. The info is on the vans website.
 
I think a lot of us who've been building for awhile and took the RV specific class forget what a confidence booster it was. Back when I took it, it was a two-day class and we built a little aileron. And in the process, we learned just about every sort of technique you need -- backriveting, dimpling, deburring, riveting, trailing edge bending etc.

I drove back home with the little aileron in the passenger seat, smiling and patting it on the long ride home from Oshkosh because I built that.

So much of building is just confidence and getting over the unknown.

I would strongly encourage you to take the RV class. That doesn't minimize any of the other find suggestions here, but also being in a group of other people who've never done this before is a good reminder that you're not alone, and we all start out relatively clueless. These projects can really get in your head.
 
MN Wing

Gregg,

Look up the local club at www.mnwing.org. Doug Weiler is the president and you won't find a nicer guy.

We have a hangar full of RV's at KANE and would be happy to show you how things work.

EAA chapter and classes are all good, too. It can be a full immersion hobby...
 
I am finally able to get back to this thread after a busy holiday. After reading all of the great responses, my plan is as follows.

1. Finish up my shop next week before the RV class. EAA tables, new High bay lights, etc.

2. Attend the MNwing RV event on the 11th to meet some local builders. (Any idea on headcount?)

2. Attend the RV class in Frederick on the 18th.

3. Build the practice projects with my wife and a few other people that might be good helpers while the class is still fresh in my mind.

4. Start the empennage.

Gregg
 
Hi Gregg, Pete, Bob, Gary, others in MN...

I've been eager to pull the trigger on an RV7 or RV10 emp as well -after my coworker got me hooked discussing his RV7A project (early stages).

I checked out the mnwing.org site and will certainly try to make it this weekend. I'll also pass the word to my colleague. There might be a few other new faces in the crowd...

Maybe I can decide on the RV7 or RV10 after its all said and done. :)
 
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
I would strongly encourage you to take the RV class. That doesn't minimize any of the other find suggestions here, but also being in a group of other people who've never done this before is a good reminder that you're not alone, and we all start out relatively clueless. These projects can really get in your head.
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this is good advice. Having a mentor is also great but it's pretty hard to beat a well organized class that is systematic in making sure you get all the right skills in a logical order. Also, they often have a wider selection of tools for you to try before deciding which types you want to buy.
 
You won't be alone...

See you in Frederick, Gregg!

I'm a first-timer with an infant -7 emp in my garage.

Look forward to mangling some metal, and hopefully meeting some PA builders, too.
 
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