Paul Eastham

Well Known Member
My Dynon EFIS, with its fancy AOA probe, doesn't show the data in a way I can easily glace at when it matters (maneuvers, landing). I've found AOA data helpful in getting those greaser landings, and of course it should help prevent inadvertent stalls. After way too much electronics work, I came up with a remote display for the Dynon's AOA data, driven from it's serial output line:

2526010967_678ed13d3a.jpg


I plan to improve it with a real circuit board and much larger LEDs, mounted right in the "crease" where the canopy meets the glareshield, hiding in the wasted space where the fiberglass fairing covers the bottom of the canopy.
I'll drill a hole through the glareshield to hide the wires, feeding in the serial data and ship's power. Here's a cheesy installation on the edge of the glareshield with zip ties and electrical tape:

2526833044_7ec035f8db.jpg


I'll get at least a few circuit boards made in a batch, anyone else interested? Cost is likely to be $60-80.
 
Looks very interesting!

Paul, nice work! It looks a bit like an AOA indexer from a fighter. I'd also be interested in how the final board set-up and install turns out, so please do keep the updates coming. Very clever!!

Gil, just looked at the Vx site as well. $179 is their price. For that you get a programmable set-up (separate from the Dynon), which indicates speed ranges (via AOA) in a cruise mode and a slow-flight mode. Pretty cool.

Paul, that said, your set-up looks a bit more compact for glareshield mounting. Two quick questions:

- I'm guessing that the lights will be a repeater for the display on the EFIS (thus mimicking what you set up on the Dynon)...correct?

- For mounting, on your aluminum casing, do you plan to add two ears bent outward to the left and right of the red LED at the bottom of the casing for screwing into the glareshield, or does the casing protrude aft towards the pilot (under the red LED) for mounting? Kinda looks like the latter in the pic above, but I couldn't tell (and you may not be there in the R&D yet!) :)

Purty neat!

Cheers,
Bob Mills
"Rocket" RV-6
N600SS
4SD
 
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Hi Paul - Put me down for one. If you need anyone to beta test assembly instructions I could pick up in MV and wire up real quick. Did you use a pic or an avr?
 
I like the DIY approach, but is it similar to this?

http://www.vx-aviation.com/documents/VSpeed_ADS.pdf

..go for it!

gil A

I am the developer of the V-Speed ADS. It's actually quiet small (about 2 inches long), and I've been flying with one for about 2 years now.

In addition to replicating the Dynon AoA display, another thing the V-Speed does is that it can display critical airspeeds in slow flight. Even if the Dynon AoA probe is not installed, this provides a heads-up indication of airspeed on final approach.

With a flap sensor switch installed, it can even tell you (flashing lamps) when you've forgotten to retract your flaps and you exceed Vfe.

It also displays cruise flight Va, Vno, Vne and flashes when Vne is exceeded.

Finally, it automatically adjusts the display brightness for night operations. This was quite a challenge because LEDs, even when driven with 1% of their normal current are still quite bright at night.

It was an interesting product development-- sucking from a firehose of data from the Dynon serial data stream, and computing all of the setpoints and dimming the display in real time. Poor little PIC controller was max'd out.

It's available from Aircraft Extras (www.aircraftextras.com).

Having said all of the above, I do find the Dynon audio alarm for AoA very valuable, and I recommend it as a first step to improving their AoA function.

Thanks, Vern
 
Q on V-Speeds ADS

Vern,

Don't want to hijack the thread, but after re-reading the .pdf on V-Speed ADS, may I ask a quick Q...

See if I have this right: If the Dynon AOA pitot is installed, the ADS comes factory set up to display AOA at set (and field modifiable) AOA set points. Or one may choose to disable AOA data receipt, and enable, then field set V-speed set points. Therefore, with the AOA pitot, a user can display either AOA set points or V-speed set points in flight (but not both...not selectable in-flight, right?). Without the AOA pitot, the user just sets the V-speed set points and runs with it as sort of a "heads-up" speed threshold indicator, as you said above. All correct?

This DIY project looks pretty neat as well...so many choices...gotta love Experimental!

By the way, I downloaded and am using the PCB/SCH Express you recommended in another thread to build schematics for my panel upgrade, and downloaded your component diagrams for use in them. Gotta say, you are THE MAN when it comes to schematics...not sure I've ever seen such detailed work! Thanks much...and can I do a Vulcan Mind Meld to get 10% of your electrical system knowledge! :)

Thanks!
Bob Mills
"Rocket" RV-6
N600SS
4SD
 
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Vern,
...
See if I have this right: If the Dynon AOA pitot is installed, the ADS comes factory set up to display AOA at set (and field modifiable) AOA set points. Or one may choose to disable AOA data receipt, and enable, then field set V-speed set points. Therefore, with the AOA pitot, a user can display either AOA set points or V-speed set points in flight (but not both...not selectable in-flight, right?). Without the AOA pitot, the user just sets the V-speed set points and runs with it as sort of a "heads-up" speed threshold indicator, as you said above. All correct?

This DIY project looks pretty neat as well...so many choices...gotta love Experimental!

By the way, I downloaded and am using the PCB/SCH Express you recommended in another thread to build schematics for my panel upgrade, and downloaded your component diagrams for use in them. Gotta say, you are THE MAN when it comes to schematics...not sure I've ever seen such detailed work! Thanks much...and can I do a Vulcan Mind Meld to get 10% of your electrical system knowledge! :)

Thanks!
Bob Mills
"Rocket" RV-6
N600SS
4SD

You are correct in your interpretation, although there is one clarification: You have AoA and Cruise v-speed indication; or Slow Flight and Cruise v-speed indication. The difference in configurations is that in the first case, the AoA at low speeds is indicated, and in the second case, it's the slow flight parameters. Both show cruise v-speeds.

I hope that's clear. The setpoints are all programmable, and it's possible to even come up with other hybrid behaviours.

Thanks. Live long and prosper.

Vern
 
I'll take one too

Paul,
I'd like to queue up for your AOA remote display too

Dave Cordner
RV7 - N898(DC, KC, RV) all reserved can't decide yet
approaching the 90%done, 90% to go point
 
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Thanks for the interest, everyone.

I wasn't aware that Vern was already making something like this, else I might have bought one rather than building my own! It's been a fun project, though, working with a cool development platform (Arduino/ATMega)

For those who seem to want my model instead, may I ask why?

Cheaper?

Smaller form factor? (I was planning to integrate it in one box like Vern's, but a separate display and brain-box is also possible)

Fun do-it-yourself project? (I was actually thinking about selling a finished product, but kits are certainly possible as well -- and add more flexibility in installation)

Different feature set? (All I'm doing is replicating the AOA display, nothing fancy, though I could program the device to do just about anything...)
 
aoa

Paul:
A separate display and brain-box is what apeals to me. I would like to embed
the LED portion on to the glare sheild to reflect on to a piece of mylar applied to the wind screen for a HUD.
Just what's going though mind:)
 
Paul:
A separate display and brain-box is what apeals to me. I would like to embed
the LED portion on to the glare sheild to reflect on to a piece of mylar applied to the wind screen for a HUD.
Just what's going though mind:)

Hi Lorne, I just go back from Oliver. How's the project?

I experimented with reflecting the V-Speed ADS off the windshield, and it works quite well. A piece of mylar reflective film makes it better. The only challenge is that when facing into the sun, it's not very effective. I also found that it's vitally important to project it exactly to the right spot because your eyes tend to target-fixate and ignore other visual cues.

Perhaps using laser diodes would help to project with zero dispersion, making the lights appear to be coming from infinity. Then the eye will have them in focus. Of course, a bank of laser diodes is not exactly eye-friendly!

I also recommend to tie the Dynon AoA alarm into your audio system. When you are fixated on a runway for landing, the beeps are very useful to gauge your AoA and remind you to look at the display.

Good luck with the project. BTW if a hangar in Oliver comes available, please let me know-- I need a place to store my airplane when I'm up in Osoyoos during the summer.

Vern
 
Jeff and Vern...and sorry for the long post!

Jeff,

I, like you, did not know about Vern's ADS until after his post in this thread. The ADS has loads of features, and the ability to program it for slow-flight/approach speeds and cruise speeds is appealing. That being said, the size of your indicator is also appealing, as is the separate brain-box concept. Having four LEDs in a small package would seem to mount easily in the vertical, not take up much room, and thus you could mount it to the glareshield so as to be visible to the left of the runway, near where many VASIs/PAPIs are...sort of a "meatball, line-up, angle of attack" trio (showing my Navy "brainwashing", but saying that, I don't intend it as a crutch, just a tool...I also believe in having the ability to fly by the look of the runway and the feel of the plane!) :)

I know the ADS can be mounted either vertically or horizontally, but wonder if, at 2.25", it'd stick up too much. Horizontal may be the way to go there. I'm gonna play with a mock-up of each, and see how it looks (yours looks like it's about 1" to 1.25" tall or so, right).

It appears the ADS would provide a tool to fly more precise airspeeds while heads-up during a landing (cool), while a Dynon AOA repeater may just show when you're starting to get slow or approaching a stall (which could be enough for everyday use...I don't have the Dynon AOA yet, as that's part of my panel upgrade plan, so I've not had the chance to fly with the indication and see how it looks and feels in the pattern). In your experience with the Dynon AOA, does it work out that you fly at the green to yellow interface for normal landing speeds, and yellow is approaching stall, then the red to yellow interface is the stall? Not saying one should fly head down looking at the EFIS AOA display, just wondering how you've found it to work. And, in your DIY planning/fabricating, would that correspond to two greens for on-speed, yellow for slow, and red for stall or impending stall on your annuciator? Just trying to cypher this out a bit, as Jethro Bodine would say.

Actual answer to your question is, size and simplicity tend toward your product, while features, programmability and auto-dimming tend toward Vern's ADS.

Vern, while we're talking AOA here, I noticed that the ADS comes factory preset to light the LEDs at preset percentages of AOA. I'm figuring that means percentage of critical AOA, right? (If, say 15 degrees is critical, then the last red light comes on at 87 percent of 15 degrees?) Can you elaborate on how you set those percentages, from a practical flying standpoint? In the airspeed mode, I can easily correlate lights to speed, and put it where I want it to be. Yet perhaps that takes away the possible benefit of using AOA in the pattern, thus giving a visual input whether full flaps, half flaps or no flaps. In the comparison of the two products, I'm thinking about (probably over-thinking :eek:) the interpretation of the many lights on ADS. Again, I don't want to hijack the thread, but others may be interested as well (good learning environment!). If this is a hijack in progress, my apologies Jeff, and Vern, if you want to take it off-line, happy to do that too.

You guys are really creative, and I love the poor-man's HUD discussion! :D Thanks for all the banter on this! Fun to talk it out!

Cheers,
Bob
 
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First: Paul, I'm sorry I hijacked this thread. From personal experience, I know your project will be very interesting and a lot of fun, so keep going. The electronics will be the easy part!

Bob: the Dynon AoA data is presented in the serial data stream as 0 to 99% of critical AoA for your aircraft-after you fly the calibration routines. The ADS defaults follow the Dynon setpoints closely, so that the green, yellow and red regions are replicated. Nevertheless, I chose to expand the yellow region with more LEDs in order to provide a more detailed display of AoA in the critical region.

The lamps will also flash when required (just in case the airplane falling out of the sky is not an indication).

Vern
www.vx-aviation.com
 
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Thanks Vern! Appreciate the feedback, and roger the falling-out-of-the-sky part!! ;) Nice work on the part of both you and Jeff...neat ideas!

Cheers,
Bob
 
working with a cool development platform (Arduino/ATMega)

For those who seem to want my model instead, may I ask why?

Is it open-source?

And as Vern said, that electronics is easy part and I would say that coding is not too hard either. However it takes some time so in that sense if you count hours (as we do when building our plane :D) you will find buying to be much cheaper choice.
 
For what it's worth, the software design, coding, debug and testing for the ADS was about 200 hours. Hardware design, documentation, test features and test software was about another 100 hours, plus expenses.

Hardware costs (circuit boards, components, machining and test fixtures was $300).

In my estimation, I'll need to sell about 10,000 of these gizmos to make a profit. Should take me about 25 years! I'll send you all an email when that happens ;-)

Vern
 
After lots of puttering in Eagle, I was able to come up with a cool design where all the electronics fit on the back of a tiny board that mounts the LEDs, all in a .5"x3"x.5" package.

But sadly, I have decided that the liability risk of selling these things is not worth the money I might make from doing so. I think it could save someone's neck, but it might also make me bankrupt if someone crashes anyway and the heirs sue everyone who made anything on the aircraft.

:( :(