N

nauga

Well Known Member
My RV-4 is getting a new panel (among other things) and I've settled on a D-10A, an EMS-D10, and a Garmin GPS 396 or 496. I've got a couple of questions - I'm sure they've been answered here but a cursory search did not turn up anything using words whith two syllables or less. :D

Soooo....

I am fairly certain it's easy to record data from the EMS. Is it possible to record EFIS data, and if so can it be done at something like 10Hz or better? How 'bout data from the GPS?

I'm betting that all of these are possible - now, are they possible all at once onto a single laptop? Software required/availble? In a perfect world it would all get dumped onto a CF card or similar, but I'm betting that's not the case...right?

Now, the hard question: How?

edit: The EFIS is replacing a vacuum AH and VG, the EMS a GRT EIS4000, and the GPS an iPAQ/AWM software.

Nauga,
doing 25 in the fast lane
 
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Hi Nauga,

I just finished replacing my wifes rv4 analog panel with the same setup you mentioned for your panel. You can see it at katiesrv4.blogspot.com
The Dynon EMS D10 can do internal data logging or external recording to a laptop. You can set up the internal recording interval to 1, 10, 30 or 60 sec intervals.
For external recording the Dynon outputs constant real time data that you can capture at 115200 baud rate.

The Dynon EFIS-D10a outputs EFIS data on a serial port also at 15200 baud that you can capture. I dont think it does internal data logging though.


You can get pdf copies of the user guides at www.dynonavionics.com
 
rvator51 said:
I just finished replacing my wifes rv4 analog panel with the same setup you mentioned for your panel...
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Thanks, Tom, that helps. I have the install and op manuals for everything - getting it all integrated and digested is my problem. So the EFIS and EMS (and I believe the 396/496) all output data at eleventy-billion bps, is there some piece of gear/interface/mousetrap I can get to allow me to record data from all three at the same time, and at some sample rate I can specify?

Nauga,
and his MUX bus
 
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uALFAT SD Card Logger

Hi George,

gmcjetpilot said:
Has anyone set up a portable datalogger like the ones below?
Click to expand...

I have used the uALFAT, together with a little 8-bit AVR uC. Works beautifully! There are a number of options on the market. If you ask nicely I might be able to go dig out some C code for you ... :) (then again: I am sure there are better examples than mine out there!)

See http://www.ghielectronics.com/products.php

But that was during my student days. These days I use Enigma to log flight test data to SD card!

(Our French dealer is also working on a low cost logger for those that don't own an Enigma/Odyssey ... Send me an email, and I can provide you with some more info.)

Best Regards,
 
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I have recorded D-10A EFIS data on a laptop, using an ugly Perl (or later Python) script to parse the data, periodically pick out a record and write it to a text file. I have tested them at up to 10 Hz.

If you craft your own solution with a laptop, you need to keep reading data, even if you don't need all 64 records it spits out every second. Otherwise, the data you aren't recording simply sits in the buffer on the laptop, and you get stale data when you grab a record to write to disk.
 
Excellent GRT EIS4000 data recording

nicolcarstens said:
Hi George, I have used the uALFAT, together with a little 8-bit AVR uC. Works beautifully! There are a number of options on the market. If you ask nicely I might be able to go dig out some C code for you ... :) (then again: I am sure there are better examples than mine out there!)
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Thank you. AVR uC, 8-bit AVR uC and C code, I'm lost, but that's OK it's the fun of learning. I have a shaky understanding of the hardware & programming. I'll probably take you up on your offer & write you for some tips. I thought a data logger would just LOG without code? Silly me, I guess they all have a microprocessor and need some code to work? Did not know it needed code, boo. I never learned C, we used FORTRAN in engineering school and know basic. My idesire with logging data, whether with a laptop or small data logger, is not recording all the data produced (64 records per/sec), as Kevin mentioned. I want data over a long period at say 1, 10, 30, 60 or 90 second intervals for many hours of flight. Recording it 64 times a second is unwieldy.
Kevin Horton said:
I have recorded D-10A EFIS data on a laptop, using an ugly Perl (or later Python) script to parse the data, periodically pick out a record and write it to a text file. I have tested them at up to 10 Hz. If you craft your own solution with a laptop, you need to keep reading data, even if you don't need all 64 records it spits out every second. Otherwise, the data you aren't recording simply sits in the buffer on the laptop, and you get stale data when you grab a record to write to disk.
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Excellent Kevin. I was afraid of that. I do want more control over plucking and recording data out as desired. I have done post recording manipulation of the large files in excel, but its cumbersome. It would be nice to record all the time, but at larger intervals so the data is not too large. The data would be cool to look at for engine trends routinely.
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
Excellent Kevin. I was afraid of that. I do want more control over plucking and recording data out as desired. I have done post recording manipulation of the large files in excel, but its cumbersome. It would be nice to record all the time, but at larger intervals so the data is not too large. The data would be cool to look at for engine trends routinely.
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Recording data at slow sample rates is quite possible. The programmer must design the program to continuously swallow the fire hose of data that is coming out of the EFIS. The program throws most of the data records away, and just records a data record at whatever rate he wants. I set up my script to have a user specified recording rate. I've tested it as slow as one record every 10 seconds, but there is no reason why it wouldn't work at much slower recording rates. It does require a Perl installation, and it is a command line script, so it isn't for everyone. But if you can learn to type, you can learn to run a command line script. And I know that you know how to type George :)

The downside of my approach is that you need to bring a laptop along. I think there is a market for small, standalone data recording devices that know how to parse Dynon data. And I think there is a market for an optional internal data card that could record data that you would download to a PC post flight. Of course this later item would have to be designed and sold by Dynon.
 
Kevin Horton said:
And I think there is a market for an optional internal data card that could record data that you would download to a PC post flight. Of course this later item would have to be designed and sold by Dynon.
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I believe that the EMS already has this capability at low sample rates.

Nauga,
who wonders why capabilites don't flow across product lines
 
The Dynon EMS software currently supports data logging engine information at 1, 10, 30, or 60 second intervals. This data is stored inside the unit and can be downloaded after a flight. The data is in a circular buffer so you always have the last 20 minutes to 20 hours of data available depending on your sample rate.

The next software release will support logging EFIS information at the same rates as the EMS. It will also add GPS logging, with lat, long, gtrk, gspd, and GPS time. This update also does some tricks to get us more sample storage so that we can do significantly longer than 20 minutes at 1Hz.
 
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AVR processors w/ SD cards

OK guys.....

AVR uProcessor with UART and SD/MMC recording.....

I might be able to help a bit - I was looking at doing exactly this, but have moved on to use 'standard' solutions. The basic PCB art work and hardware layout I've got and some simple C code is working.

Web_Img_9893.jpg


The challenge is the SD write speed coupled with a FAT filesystem, I was finding that at about 50% line utilisation at 9600 I was getting a FIFO wrap (mainly as the FAT system needed to 2x read, 1x write for the sectors maps, before that actual 1x write for the data). One of the other problems was things like data stripping / dynamic UART configuration etc were making the code base too big and required a re-compile / upload for each test - a PITA.....

That all said - the $$quickest$$ and $$easiest$$ option is to buy - the links above will give some ideas, and sounds like Nicol might have a lead to.

Setting up for AVR programming (yes George you can probably even use Fortan if want ;) ) isn't too hard, but took me about 2 weeks full time to get my headspace into microprocessor / hardware coding and the appropriate tools setup on the PC. The AVRFreaks board is a good source of support / help.

If you want it for the 'learning process' then great, otherwise - go buy......

Regards,

Carl
 
There you are Carl

Glad you chimed in. Love your post; it sounds like wounderful gibberish but interesting. I just found your thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=14793&highlight=Engine+Monitors See post #9 - ZKVII

There is also a laptop solution, which seems to be simpler, but hauling a laptop around is not convenient. Looks like Waiters flight data recorder program can record multi simultaneous inputs I believe (on a laptop). That is kind of the holy grail, recording GPS, Engine and EFIS data at the same time (with user selectable time periods). The #1 thing I want to record is my Engine Monitor (EIS4000), all the time routinely if possible. My little Garmin GPS can record a breadcrumb trail internally if I want. It's cool to load GPS data to Google earth, but I was just there in person. I really don't need to see it on a computer monitor.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=15406
 
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SD Data loggers...

WARNING: those not interesting in small SD card data loggers, skip this post. Apologies to those! Will keep it short...

Hi George,
gmcjetpilot said:
I thought a data logger would just LOG without code? Silly me, I guess they all have a microprocessor and need some code to work? Did not know it needed code, boo.
Click to expand...
Well, there are so many way to kill this cat (or should that be skin? :eek:) ... FYI: we all love and own cats at MGL Avionics.

The logger I designed a few years ago took any RS232 stream (given correct baud rate) and wrote it to disk. Advantage: any RS232 stream can be logged for a LOOONG time using a 1GB SD card. An swapping between applications was trivial - be it wind speed or engine data or GPS position... Down side: you had to parse the data during post processing. But that is not that bad.

Working with a laptop during flight testing under the African skies in the middle of nowhere with limited battery life while the wind is howling and blowing dust all over the show is painful at the best of times. I had to find an alternative!

gmcjetpilot said:
I'll probably take you up on your offer & write for some tips.
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Please do so. Like I said: Olivier has also invested some work in a simple data logger for those that don't own an Enigma or Odyssey that contains an integrated SD card data logging facility...

gmcjetpilot said:
I never learned C, we used FORTRAN in engineering school and know basic.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with Fortran or Basic ... (I don't really mean that: just saying it in an effort to "not cause any fights" about "the best" compiler out there! :cool: We all know it is Pascal/Delphi!! :D Let's not even start with AVR vs PIC vs ARM7 vs ARM9 :p)

Best Regards,
 
... while I was sleeping... (typing)

Hi Carl,
zkvii said:
AVR uProcessor with UART and SD/MMC recording.....

...

If you want it for the 'learning process' then great, otherwise - go buy.....
Click to expand...
I see while I was typing my essay, you provided the perfect solution: AVR based logger... Pity about the C code :p

(Just kidding: I am capable of writing some C myself ;) )

Thanks guys. Been fun. AVR Freak signing off for now!

Cheers,
 
dynonsupport said:
The next software release will support logging EFIS information at the same rates as the EMS...
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Well since you brought it up, do you have a projected release date? :D I will say, however, that 1Hz is pretty much useless for me as far as EFIS data are concerned (it's fine for EMS and GPS), so I'll continue to pursue the serial side of things...

Nauga,
who has been bitten by aliasing
 
No projected release date yet. Sometime in the next 6 months is about all I could say for now.

Understood that 1Hz is not enough for some measurements, but this is why we output at 64Hz out the back and publish the full data stream in every manual. Makes it very easy and open for people to use our EFIS for a variety of purposes.
 
dynonsupport said:
...this is why we output at 64Hz out the back and publish the full data stream in every manual. Makes it very easy and open for people to use our EFIS for a variety of purposes.
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Right! I didn't mean to sound quite so negative - it's a secondary criteria for me and won't stop me from installing a D10A - the fact that there's an alternate was to get what I need (see above) makes it easier. Now I've got to go laptop shopping :D

Nauga,
doing an interface plant
 
Waiters Flight Data Recorder Ver 3.3.0B BETA

I'm in the final process of finishing up mods to Waiters Flight Data Recorder program.

The latest mods added four new screens;

1) EFIS Display

2) Engine Monitor Display (Dynon and Grand Rapids)

3) GPS Display

These screens can display real time, if connected to a Dynon, GPS or Grand Rapids, AND they will also display data files that have been recorded, i.e. If you have a small serial port recorder hooked up to the Dynon to capture the serial data, you can play this recording back into my software.

Remote Display in the back seat!! :)

I, just posted the Beta version, If you find any problems, please letme know and I'll get them corrected.

http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml


NOTE - Dynons latest firmware release allows the EMS to internally record parameters for a short period of time. You need to upgrade your firmware, then use their utility program to download the data into your PC. Once you do this, you can then use Waiters Flight Data Recorder to display AND convert the Dynon file to an Excel file.

Waiter
 
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