Greg Arehart

Greg Arehart

Well Known Member
I've tried searching the archives and no joy. I recall seeing a post about the D100 and some intermittent battery-related issues, but can't find it. Also, the Dynon forums are not running properly (everyone ordering their new Skyview?).

So here's the problem. Several days ago I went out for an early flight, and the D100 was black, wouldn't start up. Checked fuses and wiring, and no problems at least to the box. Everything else was working fine, including the D120. Added a bit of heat from a heat gun to warm things up (ambient T was ~20 degrees) and the D100 came to life. Went flying to Las Vegas and spent the night. Next morning everything seemed to work properly (but it was not cold at night). Yesterday morning back in Reno, same problem - no D100 when cold, but comes on with a bit of heat. I also notice that when shutting down, the backup battery doesn't keep the D100 running for the normal 30 seconds after losing ship's power (it always used to do so). I do not, and have never seen, a warning about low internal battery.

Given these symptoms, I suspect the backup internal battery is part of the problem, but it concerns me that even with ship's power, the D100 does not power up when cold.

Any advice would be appreciated.

thanks,
greg
 
Greg,

The only advice I can give is to call Dynon.

I do know my D100 powered up and down normally while visiting family in Michigan when the temps were 5 above. The canopy cracked but the Dynons worked normally.
 
Greg, I did a quick skim of the installation and operation manuals of both the D-100 & the D-120, and couldn't really find any mention of it except for an error message about temperature instability.

However, I also remember reading it somewhere that in the case of the units being cold, it is suggested that the units be turned on and allowed to warm up for several minutes -- while doing a preflight, for example -- before attempting to fly with them. It hasn't gotten cold enough in my hangar yet for me to have experienced it.

Give that a try -- turn them on and let them warm up for a few minutes and see what happens ...
 
Thanks for the quick responses. I have also posted on the Dynon forum following someone else in Canada who appears to have a similar problem.

Bob, I've gone through the manual several times and (so far) don't see an answer to my problem. There are some troubleshooting bits about temperature but none apply to my situation.

Don, I've turned it on and waited, but will try waiting for a bit longer next time.

Bill, I presume you are using the updated software?

I'll probably call Dynon later this week but expect that they are inundated with orders and questions about the Skyview since the ordering opens today.

cheers,
greg
 
Greg Arehart said:
...Don, I've turned it on and waited, but will try waiting for a bit longer next time...
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I said "a few minutes", I actually recall it being something absurd like 10-15 minutes. I couldn't believe it when I read it and remember thinking, "Yeah, like I'm gonna leave my master switch on for 10-15 minutes before I fly ..."

I'd check the Dynon Forum archives again. I know I read it somewhere ...
 
Greg,
What you are seeing is not normal. We test our units down to -30C (and even below). The fact the battery is acting up makes me suspicious of the whole unit. We do warn you about temperatures being out of range, but this is an on the screen warning, not a failure to boot. The D100 and D120 share a large amount of electronics, and as you can see the D120 boots fine.

Best thing to do is give us a call from the plane if you can and we can try a few things.

The notes to let the unit warm up are good ones, but that has more to do with sensors stabilizing. It probably won't help a unit that isn't turning on at all, since it won't warm up if it isn't on ;)
 
Thanks, I'll try to get out to the hangar and give you a call. Might not be today...

You might also respond to this on the Dynon forum since I posted there also.

Thanks for the quick response!

cheers,
greg
 
EMS-D10 cold blooded

Just another data point. When I boot after a cold-soak(night on the ramp at 25F or lower) the D10A boots fine, but the screen on the EMS is very dim and not very readable (especially in sunlight) for 5-10 minutes. After 15 Min, it is looks bright and happy as always. A night on a cold ramp is a rare occurance, so this is not a big deal to me.

No issues ever at 45F and above.
 
Dynon with a black face... Try this

I have run into a similar issue. It could be related. I am checking things out but...
I pulled the Dynon out and just powered up using only the + and - pins. This brought the unit back to life. Then the internal battery recovered. Try it.

This is the second time with a dead battery so I have been trying to figure out what is up.. I suspect that the Dynon may have caused the issue of dead battery in the first place and that is what I am trying to isolate. Did it not timeout in the 30 second delay? I get no abnormal drain on the battery when I check the plane in normal shut-down. (Masters off keep-alive on for several instruments). This is not pilot error the second time. It was such a pain in the *** that I check the position of the master on entry and exit of the plane each time. I was almost ready to call this a one time abnormality. NOT

I think it may be related to this. I have the keep-alive pin wired up. I did not have the internal battery when I purchased it. In any event I plan to isolate the Dynon and cut the keep-alive power to it. When the keep-alive source is disconnected the unit is able to recognize the power from the normal pin and it starts the recovery process. I don't want to be upside down under the panel if I don't have to.

Got to get this figured out. I can't have this thing go dead on me at some fly-in or back country airport! :eek:
 
A little more..

This is not a tempature, or time to reboot issue. The Dynon stays dead after flying around for several hours. It is also in a fairly warm hangar.

Greg- Dynon Any thoughts.. Oh Yea... And I love the unit. I just need to figure this one out. AND IT MAY NOT BE THE DYNON. I can bring it back to life by just applying + and - That much I am sure of.:eek:
 
Greg,

Couple questions and thoughts.

Do you have Keep Alive connected?
Have you done any firmware updates or gone back and forth between versions lately?
What is your Dynon battery readout (it'll show you the state of the backup battery next to the "I"...gotta select battry in the "info" menu).
Are you losing the correct time on the EFIS clock, or keeping it?
Do you turn on the EFIS before start-up (a/c batt only, or with the internal battery)?...won't hurt it to so so, but if you have a drained batt, it may be a contributing factor (I think).

Why I ask is, back after my panel upgrade and move to FW 5.0, I had an issue where my unit would shutdown immediately upon turning the battery off (30 sec clock started when I turned the Av Master off, but the EFIS went black when I turned the battery off, and the time was lost upon restart). If I left the battery on for the full 30 second countdown, EFIS clock was OK upon restart, and all was well).

If I disconnected the KA, this anomaly did not happen. Weird, and all wiring checked OK.

Update to 5.0.1 (the next update...and subsequent) did not solve it, so I just removed the KA (and Dynon is recommending that for other battery issues).

So it appears KA may cause some internal battery drain issues (and I've heard of an odd aircraft battery drain potentially from KA), so I'd check that "I" battery state, and nix the KA if ya got it. Then fly some to get the internal battery up to snuff, and see if the black-out issue goes away.

If you head out there tomorow, lemme know, and I'll come over and play around with it with ya (we can even swap boxes and see if it travels, if ya like...pretty brave, huh!)

Cheers,
Bob
 
Bob,

I'm headed out this morning (Wed) and will give Dynon a call once Im frozen into the hangar.

I've never used the KA circuit - always been disconnected.

Upgraded last summer some time - no recent changes.

Efis is turned on with avionics master after startup. The problem also occurs if I only turn on the avionics (no engine) through the backup circuit. I don't know the internal voltage, but will probably check this morning with the Dynon folk. I do know that I have not gotten any of the "battery low" warnings.

I recall your troubles as well - this seems a different issue to me.

Should be out there around 9-9:30.

greg
 
Update

Spent a few minutes with Dynon this morning and shipped the unit to them this afternoon. Word is that this issue is NOT NORMAL but they need to look at it to see what the problem is. Will post again when I find out anything. Meanwhile, flying the old fashioned way....

greg
 
I've had a Dynon in my plane for a number of years (from one of the original D-10's which is now a D-10A) here in good ole' Minnesota. What I've experienced is that in temperatures down to about zero it works pretty good. However, when you get down into the single digits, everything that has a screen on it is sluggish to work until it warms up a bit...when it's that cold sometimes I takeoff with the screen still a bit chilled, but after I've flown for a few minutes and it warms up everything looks just fine!

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Stein,

Thanks for the info but the D120 boots right up with plenty of color etc. whereas the D100 does not. And the two are interconnected, but I get the error message on the ems that there is not an efis. So its not just the screen, its the innards. Temperatures are about 15-20F, so nowhere near your zero (and Dynon tells me it should be ok to -30). Anyway, Dynon is going to have a look and I'll report back whatever I find out for the archives.

cheers,
greg
 
Update

So, here's the final words on the cold issue for the record. Dynon messed with stuff and replaced some "potentially cold sensitive" internal parts. I don't know more than that about the problem. Received back just before the holidays and have flown about 25 hours with no cold issues (most of the time in warmer temps, but a couple of cold mornings 20F or so). Also for the record, I learned that to update any software, don't have either radio or GPS connected to the Dynon, otherwise there are communication issues between the Dynon and laptop.

greg
 
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