[lacofdfireman]

Ok I am new but must ask. I am sure it's a dumb question but I have to ask anyways. I here alot of people tell me that it took 800hrs or 2200hrs to build there kit and am wondering if this is all physical labor hrs or are the plans study hrs included. I heard one guy say that for every hr he spends on the plane he spends at least that studying the plans. Do you count that towards the building hrs?

 

[videobobk]

Dumb questions

If this is the dumbest question you have, you aren't in bad shape! I would guess that this is pretty much a personal thing and a lot would depend on how much you want to fool yourself. I logged only those hours in the shop and didn't log clean up time as I figured the garage needed it anyway. When you have a flying airplane, everyone in the "been there, done that" club is going to know how much time you took--enough to finish a fine flying machine. I doubt if anyone, even the FAA, is going to question the details of how you logged it. If I had logged all the time I spent planning and dreaming in the past 2 1/2 years, I would have had to count almost every waking moment. Keep it fun.

Bob Kelly, taxi testing

 

[jcoloccia]

At the other end of the spectrum, I log exactly 0% of my time. I take lots of pictures and jot down brief notes. Building a plane'and registering it is hard enough without adding more paper work

YMMV

 

[Jaypratt]

time?

I help people with their RV Kits here in RV Central, near Fort Worth, Texas.
Loging time is not what the DAR is looking for. He wants to know you have a good handle on your plane and how you built it.

 

[lacofdfireman]

I will explain why I asked the question. I have been researching building an RV7A quickbuild for along time. I always figured that Van's website which states Slow build time to be 2000-2200 hrs before prepunched holes were in them was about the average build time. He said with the prepunched kits take off about 400hrs. Then he said the QB kits are roughly half of that so I figured around 800-1000hrs would be the average of the QB kits. I have gone through 50 or more websites of builders that are saying the QB's are taking 1700plus hrs to complete. So I was wondering if these guys are counting plans reading time or are just going at a more meticulous pace? I am not planning on breaking any speed records with my 7A QB just curious as the the amount of physical hrs that will be involved. I know this would vary greatly from builder to builder with experience, work ethic etc, but what's your feeling on how long a QB should take realistically?

 

[n468ac]

I would say 4 to 5 years is the avg build time for a quick build.

Everyone has a life other than building ... if we didn't this forum wouldn't be so active with builders.

 

[pierre smith]

Big differences

I see quite a few guys through here giving transition training and recently one man told me he'd been at it for 12 1/2 years but he really, really enjoyed the building process and each little item was an end in itself. He now has an immaculate 6A, just signed off for flight.

Personally, A friend and I built our QB 6A in 20 months, unpainted. Another fella took a leave of absence and built his in under 6 months! Some guys take 20 years but several years seems to be the norm.

Life throws all sorts of c r a p at you; divorce, moves, bankruptcies, whatever and they all influence the outcome.
Regards,

 

[fixnflyguy]

Logging time

Unless you just want to know the final hours applied to the project,no record of time is "needed", however, I keep a good old aviation calendar on the wall in the shop that I write the approximate hours/part of the plane I spent each day I am in there on the day block of the calendar.Doesnt mean a hill of beans at the end of the project.....but it lets me know how many days I am not there as a reminder! I have a stack of calendars now...too many actually, but it is sort of a story book of the whole project.

Bill E. RV-4 sloooow build/90% done,90% to go.

 

[cytoxin]

4-5 years

i would have never started..could have done it in two the slow build route but then i got sick and took a year+ off. now my prioritys changed but i'll still finish before 5...really depends on your time availiable to spend on the project. and your present skills( which get sharp quickly). you should be able to do a quick build in a year to 18 months. once i got better i decided i wanted to spend time with my family more than i wanted a plane so that slowed down the build some. but i'll still finish under 5 I HOPE some builders did it in two years of evenings and weekends slow build, no paint. but those are long hours for really excited people. i aint quite excited enough to stay out to 2 in the morning while my little honey is fast asleep and my child doesnt know my name. then theres hunting , camping, football games, flying the spam cans. man i could have beeeeen done. if you go in thinking
4-5 you not fail your expectations. if you go in thinking well so and so did it in 1800 hrs i can to well then now your under the gun and that really soaks the fun out of it. i have a freind building a six he's been at it for 15 years his plane is older than his children (high schoolers) and is still at qb stage. it was a slow build no pre punch kit .

 

[Rick6a]

2+2=whatever!

...........alot of people tell me that it took 800hrs or 2200hrs to build there kit and am wondering if this is all physical labor hrs or are the plans study hrs included. I heard one guy say that for every hr he spends on the plane he spends at least that studying the plans. Do you count that towards the building hrs?

I have to believe that estimated build hours are largely the product of the marketing folks. It is a way to give a potential builder some idea of the time investment involved. In reality, it is no more accurate than Van's nifty cost estimator. What do professional bean counters call it.....units of "erg?"

I can't count how many times I was stumped trying to figure out a given assembly process. Sometimes, I'd retreat to the living room easy chair and "watch" junk TV while trying to think things through. You may find that you'll go to bed at night mulling over a technical problem that left you dazed and confused, yet the answer might come upon you suddenly in a spazm of inspiration at 3:00 A.M. The brain might be working on the airplane, but the "touch labor" applied to actually building isn't. Is using a Microsoft Money program to organize and total and collate stacks of invoices and receipts and generating colorful bar graphs and pie charts to document the process count? IMV, it all counts. For those reasons among others, I never actually logged the "time to build." For me, its just too nebulous a concept to get my arms around. Why bother? The FAA or your DAR doesn't care. You've got enough to think about. Some of the best advice you will ever hear....BUILD ON!

 

[lacofdfireman]

Thanks for all the replies. Great stuff. I have figured mine would take up to 5 years just for the fact that I will be living 350 miles from where I work thus making a long commute. I will still need to spend time with the family since I have 3 kids under the age of 9.

So reading all of this brings up another question. If I start buying my kit today 2006 and I end my project in 2011 would my plane be registered as a 2006 or a 2011 when I finished the project?

 

[Low Pass]

Thanks for all the replies. Great stuff. I have figured mine would take up to 5 years just for the fact that I will be living 350 miles from where I work thus making a long commute. I will still need to spend time with the family since I have 3 kids under the age of 9.

So reading all of this brings up another question. If I start buying my kit today 2006 and I end my project in 2011 would my plane be registered as a 2006 or a 2011 when I finished the project?

Since you've posted on the board, I'll go ahead and stick my nose in.

First, regarding logging building hours. About the only good thing logging hours does is to start a very subjective discussion on how long it takes to build an RV. Only thing I know is it takes less time than a scratch built and more time than an ultralight. I logged my time for about two days then quit. But I did keep a journal and photos.

Last - and the nosey part - I built my plane when my kids 3 were 2-9 yrs old. Even though most of my building time was in the garage after they went to sleep or early on weekends, I regret missing some of that time with them. In hindsight, I should have bought a finished RV alone or with a partner.

If finances are making you think building is the only way to get an RV, then consider partnership with a finished plane. Partnerships with a good written arrangment can work very well (see AOPA sources).

Just offering honest, well-intended advice based on my experience. Building a plane burns a **lot** of time!

Good luck.

 

[lacofdfireman]

Last - and the nosey part - I built my plane when my kids 3 were 2-9 yrs old. Even though most of my building time was in the garage after they went to sleep or early on weekends, I regret missing some of that time with them. In hindsight, I should have bought a finished RV alone or with a partner.



Just offering honest, well-intended advice based on my experience. Building a plane burns a **lot** of time!

Good luck.

I don't think I would be a good candidate for a Partnership Plane because of the fact that I will be using the plane as a commuter thus requiring the plane to be available at any time "I" need it.

I also have the concern of missing out on time with the kids while I build a plane so I may just very well have to buy a used RV first then build later. The biggest advantage to me for building was going to be getting the Repairmans certificate which I will not get with a used plane. I figure operating costs would probably be at least double for a used plane compared to one that I built myself. Would you agree?

 

[prporter]

I found a way to log my hours. I bought a spiral notebook, and for every hour I spend building the plane, I mark one hour in my book. For example, if I work on my plane 4 hours in one day, I mark 4 hours in the log book. If I have 12 hours for the week on my plane, then I would have 12 hours for the week in my book. Hope this helps!

 

[flydjd]

Hours record

I also keep a record of the number of hours spent building in a spiral notebook and although they are not absolutely precise ( you will probably find that you will have to make "guesstimates" as not all shop time is hands on ) I personally record ALL of the tasks that I have worked on within that shop time.

This therefore is my record which will be able to show completion and act as a reminder of tasks undertaken ( and on occasions repeated )

Perhaps I should also keep a record of time spent on this site - which might explain my moniker

 

[Low Pass]

I don't think I would be a good candidate for a Partnership Plane because of the fact that I will be using the plane as a commuter thus requiring the plane to be available at any time "I" need it.

I also have the concern of missing out on time with the kids while I build a plane so I may just very well have to buy a used RV first then build later. The biggest advantage to me for building was going to be getting the Repairmans certificate which I will not get with a used plane. I figure operating costs would probably be at least double for a used plane compared to one that I built myself. Would you agree?

Not necessarily. One of the biggest keys to a used RV, IMVHO, is finding a friendly A&P to help with the annual condition inspection. By friendly, I mean one that will first take the job. Second, let you do some/most of the work.

As for the remainder of the maintenance, you can do this yourself. As for being qualified, that's up to you and the knowledgable help you can find. Personally, if it weren't for all the helpful, knowledgable people I've met over the years, I'd be short a lot of money and time. Part of that can come from places like this board. The rest from a friendly airport where hands-on airplane people talk to each other. But I'm getting off target.

As for commuting in the plane, I think that idea sounds great! Wish I could get up into the Texas Hill Country and commute to work myself. If your lifestyle accomodates airline tickets or even driving 350 miles to work, then I can't believe a reasonably priced, wholy owned, RV would be too far off from those numbers.

But don't let me talk you out of building if that's what you're after. I enjoy building too.

 

[RV7Guy]

You've got time

Ok I am new but must ask. I am sure it's a dumb question but I have to ask anyways. I here alot of people tell me that it took 800hrs or 2200hrs to build there kit and am wondering if this is all physical labor hrs or are the plans study hrs included. ?

Dude, your a fire fighter, you only have a part time job anyway and what do you do with your time when you aren't rescuing cats from trees, polishing the trucks, and lifting weights? Study the plans. Not only should you be the most knowledgeable builder out there, you should be the fastest!!!! If I had your job, I'd have small pull out shop in the back of my truck. I'd be fabricating every part in the plans while at work

Seriously, (I can make the above comments, I spent 30 years in public safety), don't worry about the actual hours. There are really too many factors to try to put a time bracket on things. Work every available minute you can and progress will come rapidly.

You can study the plans all you want but will still get hung up as you actually work on the plane. On anything but a -10 you will become frustrated and need the help of everyone here.

Good luck and be safe on the job.

 

[dan]

What people haven't mentioned is why you sometimes need to track hours. If you insure the project, you need a record of the # of hours you spent on it -- so that you can be compensated for those hours.

My 2 cents -- I log "time spent in the shop." Yes, that does include reading plans, but I think people overstate how much time you're gonna spend dumbly staring at them.

 

[gorbak]

With a number 2 pencil

Every hour is kept, with written detail as to what is completed when working on the RV9-A planes. I also keep detailed record of each $$ spent and the hours of labor , including shop prep and cleaning, which are kept in the log book. When the shop gets so cluttered that I cannot get work done effeciently (it happens), I will spend whatever time it takes to get it back to proper working condition. I log this as time spent on the project. I logged the time as I was getting things done that resulted in a cluttered work area so why not be honest with the time. I log the time spent starring blankly at the plans trying to understand what I just read five times. It is time spent so I log it. Obviously logs will differ.

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
RV9-A 942WG (reserved) slider
RV9-A 942PT (reserved) tip-up

 

[Paul Thomas]

Yes, that does include reading plans, but I think people overstate how much time you're gonna spend dumbly staring at them.

You're underestimating some of us

In reality not much time is spend figuring things out. I just feel that I should understand things right away because it is "easy". However every now and then I have to read things more than once and then I'm still not exactly sure what is meant. That's frustrating and I feel I'm wasting time figuring it out. Once the task is understood and underway it seems to go by very quickly for something that I wasted so much time on.