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N282RV

Well Known Member
I have started painting my interior and am using the sherwin williams self etching primer for most of my aircraft. This has been applied during the construction process and it provides a nice hard finish, similar to the QB wash primers I think. I went to the SW store and asked them what paints go well with the primer Im using, a few came up and I decided on a water based light industrial enamel designed for marine and industrial uses. I figured that would suffice for my interior. So far so good.
Heres the problem. I proceeded to paint parts and then my cockpit it self. I then did some masking ,after the first color cured for a few weeks, for a two tone look and when I removed the tape, after only a few hours of being on, the blue painters tape pulled up the other paint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :confused: :( :mad:
I believe my mistake was not prepping the primer and thinking I didnt need to. So now what to do, it seems almost impossible to strip the cockpit as it was hard enough to paint with a gun. And then the prospects of stripper getting into rivets and seams and possibly corrosion down the road. The other prospects are that my interior will always have this chipping paint problem. By far this is the most disappointing part of my build experience.
Suggestions? Ideas?
I know alot of parts will not be seen much and or covered with other things but the visible places concern me most.
back to work,
 
How about a little sand blasting gun? I believe harbor freight sells them cheap. It'll remove that primer like nothing!
 
Whats the part # of the primer?
A lot of primers need to be overcoated within a limited amount of time or the top coat will not adhere properly.
 
N282RV:

I painted my interior using the GBP-988 primer and the SW AcrylD over it. The plane hasn't flown yet but the paint is holding up very well to all my bumps and scraping while finishing the build. Don't know exactly what your specific problem is, but at least for me it isn't a problem. I didn't do anything special to the primer before spraying the paint either. :confused:

Oh yeah...how 'bout editing your signature so we'll know who we're talking to?
 
DO NOT sandblast your airplane parts! Sandblasting can stretch the heck out of metal very quickly.
 
Wash primer needs a sealing primer before topcoat

According to my research, wash primers eliminate the conversion coat step with acid etch/alodine. Like alodine, the wash primer needs a primer applied over it before topcoat or it will be lifted by the drying topcoat.

For my interior, I went over my S&W wash primer with Epibond epoxy primer followed by the PPG Polyurethane paint.
 
I had this problem on one part. The right arm-rest. The problem is, I can't remember which primer I used. Some of the parts I used the SW primer but other parts I just used the rattle can NAPA (you know, after awhile, it's a total pain in the neck to mix up the SW, get the gun out, paint, and then clean up that mess...that's why I've become a rattle can fan).

I'm using the Rustoleum hammered finish (good stuff, hides fingerprints and surface defects nicely)

But I had taped some paper on it with that blue painters tape and, yep, it pulled off the paint. Funny thing is I took to it with MEK and I couldn't get much paint off and then I sanded it. Ditto. This weekend, I just repainted. Heck, it's going to have upholstery on it anyway.

I've tried the "blue tape" test on a couple of other parts and it didn't pull off the paint....testing it on pieces with SW and pieces with NAPA.

I'm beginning to think maybe the problem isn't with the primer; it's with the preparation on that part before the primer.
 
I once used blue tape to mask off some cabinetry and when I took off the tape, the varnish came off with it. The painter told me not to use blue tape because it has a chemical in it that eats into some paints & varnishes. (It does have a faint ammonia smell to it.) He said plain old masking tape would have worked better.
Any way, I think I would just sand the edges smooth, prime and repaint the panels where you had the problem and leave it at that. You might be able to get by using a Prevail sprayer if the areas are small enough and just hold a piece of cardboard up against the edge, rather than taping.
Do small areas (one or two panels) at a time, allowing them to dry before moving on to other areas and it will be easier.

I used PPG Concept for my interior and have used blue tape and masking tape on it with no problems, but it is an acrylic enamel and is as hard as nails.
 
szicree said:
DO NOT sandblast your airplane parts! Sandblasting can stretch the heck out of metal very quickly.
Click to expand...

I've beadblasted many aluminum airplane parts down to around .020 and have never had a problem with it deforming the metal. I keep the air pressure at a reasonable level and have no problems.
 
Ok home from work now and more specificly I have used this
SW Industrial primer P60 G 2 (recomended in vans manual)
and top coated with
SW DTM(direct to metal) Acrylic B66 W 213
I suppose the paint guys at the store may not be paint guys and I needed to prime my primer then top coat.
I went and looked at my project again and maybe Im overreacting, you all know how it is, have a problem during your after work session and you cant help but think about it all day and how horrible your project is compared to every one elses perfect airplanes. :D
I will try and use regular masking tape next time.
I suppose if it gets to bad in the future I will have to come up with some fabric panels or something.
I think I have fixed my signature block for you know. Had to figure that one out.
 
sand blasting

not to start a whole new war, but distortion of the metal occurs from pressure and media...ive "SAND" blasted steel and it distorts the **** out of it.
however there are all types of media to use and complete cars can be blasted w/o harm. but those small blasters are quite aggressive not to mention it will take years to get all of the sand out. :mad: the cabinet with glass beads however has proven safe to me.
 
N282RV said:
and you cant help but think about it all day and how horrible your project is compared to every one elses perfect airplanes.
Click to expand...
2734 McKinley Dr., Woodbury, MN. Anytime you feel that way, Mapquest the address , hop in the car, and drive on over. I'll be happy to point out all the stupid mistakes that went into my perfect project.
 
READ THIS!!!!

This is a common mistake that those who don't have painting experience often make. Using the wrong masking tape.

The tape at Home Depot, Lowes etc is designed for non chemical paints, aka, house paints.

YOU MUST GO TO AN AUTO PAINT SPECIALITY STORE AND PURCHASE TAPE FOR AUTO PAINTING. 3M is the best. It is expensive but is designed for the chemicals in auto paints.

Buy a variety of sizes for masking. This is extremely critical when you start doing your canopy glass work. ONLY USE THE GOOD STUFF.
 
Many primers have a window of time where you can over coat them directly. Past that time the primer needs to be scuff sanded for any thing to stick to it.

As RV7guy said, 3M tape is the best. If you don't buy 3M, you wasted your money. The tape to use is the 3M 233+ (the green stuff), sticks good and comes off when you are done. Avoid using the blue "painters" tape. The reason it has good release qualities is because it doesn't stick in the first place.

IMHO of course, YMMV.

:)
 
Testing testing testing

It just amazes me that so many builders just buy paints from different manufacturers and simply go ahead and spray them on top of each other...directly onto their plane....totally crazy. No wonder they have paint coming off. If paint comes off with masking tape then it's a DISASTER situation....that means virtually zero adhesion.

What builders should do is try out the prep/paint combination firstly on a test sample. Then try a vigorous solvent wipe as a chemical inertness test. And then try an adhesion test using a strong fibre reinforced packaging tape. Ideally the area to be adhesion tested should be cross-hatched with a blade....a dozen straight parallel cuts through the paint at roughly 2 mm centres,,,then another dozen cuts at 90 degree at 2 mm centres (to form little 2 x 2mm squares. Leave the paint for a reasonable time to fully cure then wipe clean with meths and apply the tape. It is even better if you leave the tape on for 24 hours before pulling off vigorously.

If no squares come off I guarantee you will NEVER have adhesion problems with that paint system. If a few squares come off it's still OK. If half the squares come of it's marginal. If most or all of the squares come off its a complete failure.

Don't use your aeroplane as the test bed for paint systems....try them out on scrap first.
 
well I did purchase my paints from the same manufacture and I did do a scrap test prior to putting it on my plane. I did not go through the exact steps given about cutting into squares ect but I did beat up the test piece and soak it in water, splash it with acetone ect, seemed ok to me, not bullet proof but ok. Now the diffrence is that this piece was painted oh 6 months ago and I was taping a piece that was painted 2 days ago.
Part of the problem I think is that I was not thinking about finish painting when I was building my fuselage. I suppose this is akin to a QB stage of finish, so what have you QB guys used?
And I dont think Ill be blasting any media into my fuselage, more likely to just start wiping with MEK or something if I decide to try and remove the paint, althought I think this will leave me with more of a mess than what I have now.
Did some high build sanding on my canopy skirt tonight, gotta keep making progress.
 
possibly zolatone but then I still have this possibly poorly adhered layer of paint to contend with underneath. It would hide the problems well though. I may just not worry about it for now and see how it goes, I either have to redo it now....or maybe have to redo it later. Stick em or shoot em.?
 
A pressure washer will take off loose paint nicely. Obviously not an option if you've got avionics etc installed already.

I used one on the interior of my rebuild to take off the rattle can paint. Got the loose stuff off and left the Variprime intact. I feather sanded the edges of the paint that remained and painted over with Imron. Seems to be holding up okay.
 
Lee

I have been painting rv planes for about five years and auto for 25+. Try using the tap, Thats what we do in the shop. It may not get it all, but most of the time it's about 85%, sand the rest. Also you need to sand prior to wash prime or self etch.
 
I could do the pressure washer thing, that just might do the trick.
When you say the tap do you mean just tap water and not pressurized?
No electrics installed yet so that isnt a problem.
 
Well its clean now, I have stripped the whole dang interior, and now I am studying what I will do next. I called vans today and they confirmed that they use the same primer on their QB and the instructions I got from them is that they wash with soap and water, maybe lightly scuff and then paint.... well I wasnt that far off and I didnt like it soo.....I am redoing it. I used a pressure washer and that took off alot of the not stuck very well paint, I then used stripper and acetone with alot of scotchbrite and elbow grease. Then pressure washed again to rinse it out very well. I am now member of the "powder coating sucks" group. the stripper weakened the powder coat and exposed the steel underneath...urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrh.. Some of these parts are not removeable so I guess Ill be doing the best I can by cleaning best I can and painting as is.
Anyone with experience with Dupont Colar 824s? It was suggested to me from another paint store and a late friend of mine used it in his pitts.
 
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