RNB

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I hope to take possession of an rv in the coming weeks. Prebuy suggested it only had one adahrs and a 2nd would be good for ifr. I’d have ForeFlight in cockpit, not sure how well it works with no adsb in, could always fly with a charged adsb receiver, prefer not to. I see afs offers decently priced 2nd adahrs. i don’t think the plane has backup battery.

i am familiar with garmin g5, has its own battery.
in a plane that has a home built panel with a rats nest of wires, any advice on which choice to make of the following and why? If this work were hired out, any reason to think any of these options cost much more in terms of labor?

-do nothing
-add garmin g5 with maybe 4 hr battery
-add 2nd afs adahrs
-do the above with addition of battery back up that lasts short time based upon what I’ve read.

thanks
 
So my recommendation is to add either a 2nd AHADHRS or a G5. Depending on what's in your panel, the AHADHRS might be the easiest route and would provide for the easiest integration with your existing hardware, least amount of wiring, etc, etc. Standby battery is always a plus especially if you only have one alternator and one main battery.

Not sure I 'm tracking the FF and ADS-B comment. Although I have approach plates on my EFIS I like to use my EFB for actual charts and plates with the data on my EFIS as backup. I have a WiFi only iPAD without GPS as my EFB so I'm reliant on an ADS-B -in receiver to receive GPS data plus FIS-B and TIS.
 
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So my recommendation is to add either a 2nd AHADHRS or a G5. Depending on what's in your panel, the AHADHRS might be the easiest route and would provide for the easiest integration with your existing hardware, least amount of wiring, etc, etc. Standby battery is always a plus especially if you only have one alternator and one main battery.

Not sure I 'm tracking the FF and ADS-B comment. Although I have approach plates on my EFIS I like to use my EFB for actual charts and plates with the data on my EFIS as backup. I have a WiFi only iPAD without GPS as my EFB so I'm reliant on an ADS-B -in receiver to receive GPS data plus FIS-B and TIS.
Thanks.

Foreflight allows some interesting things, not legal though, but great in an emergency: https://support.foreflight.com/hc/e...-the-Attitude-Indicator-Synthetic-Vision-view
 
-add garmin g5 with maybe 4 hr battery
-add 2nd afs adahrs
Hard to go wrong with either of these. AFS makes good gear and the G5 is a star in the cost/benefit category. Having had to use it once, I consider the backup battery on the G5 a must-have.
 
Thanks.

Foreflight allows some interesting things, not legal though, but great in an emergency: https://support.foreflight.com/hc/e...-the-Attitude-Indicator-Synthetic-Vision-view
OK, I get it, but IMO these are mutually exclusive things. Having an EFB as an emergency backup for GPS navigation and general situational awareness is good, but not a substitute for attitude control in IMC. It's all about your level of risk acceptance--you can't eliminate all risk but it can be mitigated. The question is what level of mitigation are you comfortable with? Folks flew IFR for decades with the bare minimum in terms of instruments and nav equipment. Personally, I like redundancy as I like to have options IFR and have 2 of almost everything. But that's me and what colors my recommendations.
 
......
-add garmin g5 with maybe 4 hr battery
-add 2nd afs adahrs
.......
FWIW. I planned my panel around a second ADAHRS. Then, was convinced to do one plus a G5. The argument that got my attention was their independent development approach; supposedly no common architecture, etc.

Safer overall? Probably. Worth it in the end? Will probably never know. If I would have started with original panel planning with the single plus G5 approach, I probably would have saved money and installed a single large EFIS vs two smaller ones (limited panel space). Lots of ways to do it. Do what's right for you/your intended missions. Enjoy.
 
First off, I am not suggesting to duplicate my set-up - I like it, but it may not be the route for you...
That caveat aside, if I understand your question/concerns here are a few thoughts from my experience.
For context - I fly about 200 hours a year (RV14) and probably about 20 hours in IMC (i live in the PNW - so, IMC can be hard to avoid half the year).
My panel is in the pic below.

The primary set-up is the GTN/G3x set-up, with slaved A/P (autopilot). Fully legal for IFR/IMC. Works great. There is also remoted a intercom panel, second comm and transponder - but those arent relevent in this discussion. All are accessed by the G3x, and I prefer it this way over having the panel mounted units.

I have a G5 back-up, which should be able to take over Auto/Pilot control if the G3X failed - and, both it and the G3x have a back-up battery. However, if the AP failed, I am hand flying - which can be a load in nasty single pilot IMC. My biggest concern would be if I had a major panel meltdown (fire?) - especially in IMC - and, all the stuff behind the panel was toast.

So....I also run Foreflight slaved to a Sentry (with ADHARS) as a completely separate and redundant system.

The benefits:

>I already have Foreflight and use it. Frankly, cant conceive not having Foreflight - its so useful in so many ways. FF's map on my iPad also generally my primary display for Nav (it also slaves via bluetooth to the G3X and updates routes and flight plans in realtime). The Sentry (via its wi-fi) has its own separate source of NAV info and generates ADAHRS (not showing in my pic, but you can run in split screen mode on the foreflight display to see it - and when in IMC I always run the ipad in split screen with the ADAHRS so I know its operational and there if i need it - I also use it to cross check what my primary G3X screen is showing).

>What I like is that if my panel dies - I have a completely separate/redundant/self-powered system. Both the iPad and the sentry are charging in flight via usb cords - so they are always at full capacity battery-wise. If I lose power, the Ipad is charged and will last more than an hour (maybe two ?), and the sentry has an 8 hour battery. Should be more than enough for me to deal with a situation.

>With this set-up, I can navigate, and shoot an approach if needed in an emergency (albiet, hand flying it). Whist I would lose some of the higher functions of the Garmin, (smart glide, for instance), its still pretty good and lights years ahead of what i relied on a few decades ago.

>In non-emergency situations, I still generally display my approach chart and an overlay on the Foreflight map and use it like a primary reference (even though I display a chart on the G3x, too - but, I aslo find I am toggling between the screen pages on the G3x for other info (airport info, traffic, engine monitor, etc), whereas I keep the chart and map on the Foreflight screen continuously).

So, If I was looking for a basic sytem that was IFR/IMC legal (and useful) - here's what I would have:

Garmin G3x - great primary display (lots of great features - eg. engine monitor, nav, charts, etc)
IFR approved NAV/COM. I am only familitar with the Garmins - but, they have some reletively inexpensive ones. No need for the GTN750.
A/P - if you can afford it, it sure makes flying approaches a lot easier than hand-flying. Its also great for XC flying.
Foreflight
Sentry
iPad mini or larger (these last three are your redundant sytem - have usb power for the sentry and the ipad and charge in flight)

Optional - add a G5

Also, get the battery back-ups for both the G5 and the G3x.
Also, I didnt mention the standard stuff like transponder - there are basic requirement for IFR equipment the FAA has that need to be complied with.

Hope this is useful.
 

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My Advanced Flight EFIS readily supports two ADAHRs. Depending on your EFIS, that would affect your decision ADAHRS vs G5. A new G5 is about $1500 but, depending, would likely be a lot easier to install. In my application, the G5 was easy, the ADAHRS was hard. Relative to redundancy, I have a G5 with integrated battery backup as a dissimilar backup to my EFIS/ADAHRS...different inputs, different power supply and I also have Foreflight with Sentry, so...4 different ADAHRS. One of my closest friends died a couple of years ago when he lost attitude reference in IMC (vacuum). I confess that that has affected my view of the redundancy question.

I would note that if your panel is a indeed a rat's nest of wires, maybe this is a good opportunity to remedy that too.
 
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So, If I was looking for a basic sytem that was IFR/IMC legal (and useful) - here's what I would have:

Garmin G3x - great primary display (lots of great features - eg. engine monitor, nav, charts, etc)
IFR approved NAV/COM. I am only familitar with the Garmins - but, they have some reletively inexpensive ones. No need for the GTN750.
A/P - if you can afford it, it sure makes flying approaches a lot easier than hand-flying. Its also great for XC flying.
Foreflight
Sentry
iPad mini or larger (these last three are your redundant sytem - have usb power for the sentry and the ipad and charge in flight)

Optional - add a G5

Also, get the battery back-ups for both the G5 and the G3x.
Also, I didnt mention the standard stuff like transponder -
I cannot decide if this was an oversight or not - ‘no need for the gtn750’ - which I agree with. But in today’s ifr environment, unfortunately, I do think some sort of TSO’d (e.g., frightfully expensive) approach capable gps is required. VOR’s are going away, and most ILS approaches now need a second nav (VOR cross fix) or a DME to ID the FAF and/or the missed approach fix. And so many airports have a gps (only) approach.
 
My 2 screen (IFR) AFS panel has a single ADHARS. However, I do have a Garmin G5 as an independent flight instrument, that has it's own ADHARS. The AFS system allows me to switch between the system ADHARS and the G5 ADHARS. If the main ADHARS were to fail, switching to the G5 is as simple as 2 screen taps. The AFS system is constantly comparing ADHARS data with the G5 and happily notifies me if there's a mismatch. A second AFS ADHARS might be just as useful, but in the event of an EFIS failure (both of them), the G5 display is sitting there with its own power supply.

Bill
 
Also, realize that a system with two adahrs can create an interesting dilemma if one is providing faulty data…which one do you believe?

“Man with two watches never knows what time it is.”
 
I cannot decide if this was an oversight or not - ‘no need for the gtn750’ - which I agree with. But in today’s ifr environment, unfortunately, I do think some sort of TSO’d (e.g., frightfully expensive) approach capable gps is required. VOR’s are going away, and most ILS approaches now need a second nav (VOR cross fix) or a DME to ID the FAF and/or the missed approach fix. And so many airports have a gps (only) approach.
VOR's are decreasing but not going away. 2016 there were 896 VORs (CONUS) By 2030 they will be reduced to 590 which will conclude the reduction program. In addition, certain VORS will increase service volume from 40 to 70nm at 5k feet to fill in the gaps created. Overall, I'd say a significant number or VORs remain, and the increased service volume makes the remaining VORs more efficient. I am planning to use them in addition to GPS. There will be 186 airports that will have an instrument approach that does not require GPS or DME.

I'm planning single screen AFS with dual AHRS, and dual AV-30s as back up. Each has their own independent back up battery.
 
Second ADHARs and a G5. Have a tie breaker and completely separate architecture. G5 with the backup battery, And backup battery for the main system with two ADHARS. Two friends died last week in a crash. Be smart, minimize risk. It's priceless.
 
FWIW. I planned my panel around a second ADAHRS. Then, was convinced to do one plus a G5. The argument that got my attention was their independent development approach; supposedly no common architecture, etc.

Safer overall? Probably. Worth it in the end? Will probably never know. If I would have started with original panel planning with the single plus G5 approach, I probably would have saved money and installed a single large EFIS vs two smaller ones (limited panel space). Lots of ways to do it. Do what's right for you/your intended missions. Enjoy.
Same here, I'm running a single ADAHRS and a G5.
 
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Why not get a GRT mini
.
 
My RV8 had two GSU 25s installed with it's G3X Touch. And a TCW backup battery. And a backup vacuum pad mounted alternator (B&C SD8). Later when the G5 came out I added one. So now I have 3 ADAHRS units. Had the G5 been out when the G3X Touch first came out there would have been no need to have the second GSU 25.
 
Maybe easier to pull out the "rat's nest" and start from scratch, install an AFS ACM and build on that.

The plane is otherwise quite capable. I went overboard doing too much to the 172 I am selling, want to avoid that again. While cleaning up wires would be good, the whole world of financial cons push the scale in favor of simpler.
 
This looks like a G5 like product, does it have a 4 hr battery included?
The whole reason to go exp is to get away from garmin and use GRT. Comparing a g5 to the GRT mini efis is like trying to compare a Model T to a Thunderbird.. the g5 is only an AHRS, the GRT is an AHRS and a navigator and more, and yes internal backup battery is available option https://grtavionics.com/product/mini-efis-2nd-generation/

You can wire up your own back up battery and carry spares, 8 C cell batteries would run this thing 20 or more hours I bet, and simple to wire a SPDT toggle switch and 5 dollar 8 C cell pack to, if you lost your bus you simply flip the toggle to your alkaline 8C power and have isolated the GRT mini from the ship, now you can fly and navigate, if you also wire your GPS 175 to the backup 8C toggle you can fly RNAV LPV appoaches with the ship master switch off. The GRT alone can guide you down to a runway on its own though with its synthetic approach to any airport in its nav database, the synthetic approaches have been as accurate as an ILS every time I fly, just more stuff the garmin cant do.
 
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The whole reason to go exp is to get away from garmin and use GRT. Comparing a g5 to the GRT mini efis is like trying to compare a Model T to a Thunderbird.. the g5 is only an AHRS, the GRT is an AHRS and a navigator and more, and yes internal backup battery is available option https://grtavionics.com/product/mini-efis-2nd-generation/

You can wire up your own back up battery and carry spares, 8 C cell batteries would run this thing 20 or more hours I bet, and simple to wire a SPDT toggle switch and 5 dollar 8 C cell pack to, if you lost your bus you simply flip the toggle to your alkaline 8C power and have isolated the GRT mini from the ship, now you can fly and navigate, if you also wire your GPS 175 to the backup 8C toggle you can fly RNAV LPV appoaches with the ship master switch off. The GRT alone can guide you down to a runway on its own though with its synthetic approach to any airport in its nav database, the synthetic approaches have been as accurate as an ILS every time I fly, just more stuff the garmin cant do.
We are on the list to get the new Mini with backup battery for our Zenith 801 project, which we’re building as an “economy panel” VFR bird. The Mini’s ability to display engine monitor data from the famously cost-effective EIS 4000 (we found one of those that was “new ancient stock”) is another plus. The new Mini with an EIS 4000 seems to offer huge bang for the buck.