H

HBpilot

Active Member
Hi,
I was riveting the brackets, rear spar on the VS and could not get these rivets the way I wanted. I first used the pneumatic squeezer and for some reason, it would not squeeze them. Is it possible that the rivets are too long for the squeezer ?
I then used the hand squeezer but I guess I had to squeeze so hard, that I couldn't have them nice and straight. Well, I guess I should have been bucking.

Anyway, could you please take a look at these pictures and tell me if you think they are ok or if you see any that should be drilled out :

https://picasaweb.google.com/116483...authkey=Gv1sRgCOX5qc7cqtzv4AE&feat=directlink

Thanks.
 
Drill out

I would replace the one in pic #2, the middle one looks like you could drive a little more. I am sure others with more experience will chime in, but that is what I would do. I am half way through my wing kit so I really don't have that much experience.
 
Hard to be absolutely sure, but I'd say re-do the right rivet, and smash the left and center a bit more. Do you have a rivet gage?

Also, make sure that you adjust the pneumatic squeezer so that the smashed rivet hight is at the end of the travel. The most powerful part of its stroke is at the end...and use 80+ psi of air pressure.

I'm sure some of the other experts will be along shortly to give you more of a consensus.

Hope that helps,

-Jim
 
All except pic 9 look clinched (bent over) and/or underdriven. If you can see the edge of the hole they need work. You may be able to drive a few of them a bit more but the ones that are bent over will usually not get any better.

"I was riveting the brackets, rear spar on the VS and could not get these rivets the way I wanted. I first used the pneumatic squeezer and for some reason, it would not squeeze them."

For the above you sometimes have to squeeze twice, the squeezer has maximum force in a limited range towards the begining of the stroke so set them half way reset the sqeezer then come back and set them the rest of the way.
 
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If the ram in the pneumatic squeezer isn't set correctly, it can't do the squeeze properly. If you hit it a couple of times with the pneumatic squeezer, the rivet may have work hardened enough that no amount of additional force will clean up the rivet and that could explain why following with the hand squeezer didn't work out.

These rivets look like they may not set completely and some may a little heeled over.

If it were mine, I'd drill them out and try again. My first choice of weapon would be the hand squeezer - last weapon of choice would be the gun/bar.

Go carefully so as not to enlarge the holes.

I'm sure there are many, many other views - YMMV.

Dan
 
Rivets again

I suggest that you take two scrap pieces of aluminum with many holes of the right size and practice. The rivet size tools define the correct length and measure the height and diameter of the set rivet. Event after years, there are rivets I need to check.
Pressure settings on the squeezer are important.
 
Find a coach

Serge, My best advice to you would be to look around the Ocala area for an EAA chapter, and find a sheet metal guru to give you some hands-on instruction.

Nothing beats having someone show you how to set good rivets. And in the process, you will get good coaching on how to properly drill them out, as well. And it all takes practice, and more practice. Do your practice on the scrap stuff instead of a real part.

There must be lots of experts within a few miles of you that would love to get you up to speed.

A picture may be worth a thousand words, but hands on training is worth a thousand videos! :)
 
replace

As others have said replace the club foot ones, drive some more etc...
But noticed that in pic 5 the center one looks like it has a fracture in it.
Check it/them with a magnifying glass and replace any that are cracked too.
I had that problem wih some old rivets once (search "old rivets: thread on here), bought new ones and had no more problem with cracks.
 
The number 1reason rivets clinch over is b/c the rivet is too long. The pics look like they may be longer than necessary here. All in pic 3 appear clinched. Don't be a slave to the rivet size callouts on the drawings. There will be many places where you will need to use one size larger or smaller than the dwg callouts. In case you haven't yet had the opportunity, a good build class would be time and money well spent given that you have a long build ahead of you. Good luck.
 
C-fram technique

DCat22 said:
Side note...do you actually need the special base plate featured in that video? I wasn't sure of it's purpose, since you can put the same sets in the normal base plate too.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the c-frame manufacture. I believe that the avery c-frame requires a separate modified base plate/special insert; I got my c-frame from Cleveland tools didn't require anything special. You could probably call avery if you have their c-frame, I have had nothing but great experience when dealing with both avery and cleveland. You will need the 12" back-riveting set though.

There is a a little insert/sleeve that goes into the hole, I think it protects the rivet sets. Shoot me a pm with your email address and I can take some pictures up close if you want.
 
Thank you all for your input.
I actually took an EAA class last year. But we mostly used the rivet gun and the hand squeezer. We didn't learn how to use the pneumatic squeezer to its best.
I was just wondering if hand squeezing (with not the best hand squeezer out there), or bucking was the best option. All these rivets were hand squeezed, but required a lot of pressure. They would start to bend sideway early on in the process. One poster mentioned that it might have been too long of a rivet, which is actually the question I asked myself when I first put the rivet in place. It calls for a 470AD4-7. Can anybody remember using a shorter one ?
Anyway, I think I will drill them out, but I am looking for the best technique to use here.
Thanks once again for taking the time to answer.
 
I was having some frustration with my pneumatic squeezer not squeezing rivets fully. I tried many different combination of squeezer sets and ram height. Come to find out while my regulator was set at 90psi, I was getting less than that at the end of the hose for some reason.

Double check your air psi at the end of the hose!
 
I would drill the toppled ones out and set them with a rivet gun and bucking bar. This is how I set mine and it worked like a charm. Finish the rivets that aren't set well enough the same way.
 
HBpilot said:
They would start to bend sideway early on in the process. One poster mentioned that it might have been too long of a rivet, which is actually the question I asked myself when I first put the rivet in place.
Click to expand...
So long as the rivet squeezer is square to the rivet while squeezing, they shouldn't clinch over. The fact that they are bending right away is even more of a clue that the rivets are too long. Three solutions:
1. Pick up a rivet gauge that shows how much rivet needs to protrude prior to squeezing. My Cleaveland gauge does this. Eventually your eye will tell you without the gauge.
2. Buy a $10.00 rivet cutter. That way, you can turn a 470-4-7 to a 470-4-6.5. There will be MANY places in the build where you will need to do this.
3. Try a shorter one and measure the the shop head when done. Sometimes you just need to experiment.
Hope this helps.
 
Got them all out without damage and will buck them.
The only thing I don't understand...is why would I have to make them shorter than somebody else ?
Thank you all for the help.
 
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Problem

Here is the problem.... if you drill them out the holes will be oversize and this will only help the next set of rivets bend over. From what I can see in the photos several of these could be driven straight by someone skilled with a rivet gun.

If you do drill them I would first drill about 3/16 into the rivet with an undersize drill, then take the head off with an 1/8 drill, then tap the rivet out with an undersize punch. Less chance of making the hole out of round that way.

Even after building 2 RV's I get the occasional rivet go astray so keep at it!!
 
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