G

Girraf

Well Known Member
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Need to Vent...

I have a clean #40 pilot hole in the firewall where one doesn't belong. How did that happen? Instructions say to drill a 2" hole for the cabin heat valve. Location depicted on dwg 19 (Firewall). Pilot hole drilled. I start noticing that all the other build logs have this hole in a slightly different location. I verified I read the drawing correctly. On a whim, I log onto Van's website and make sure my dwg is up to date to discover that full size print that I have is on rev 2 (May 2001) but the current version is rev 5 (April 2019). My gripe is that rev 3 contained the update I needed, which took place in August 2001....a full 18 years BEFORE I ordered my fuselage kit. How in the world I received a drawing that was that out of date is beyond me.

I understand that drawings get revised with time, and that we should periodically check in to see if changes were made between the time we received the prints and the time we go to build from said print, but I definitely expect that the printed drawings I receive are the most current version.

So much for this promise (taken from the intro section of the instructions)
A WORD ABOUT THE PLANS:
When the kits are shipped, they have the latest plans and manual revisions. The plans match the parts as shipped. Over time, we make changes, corrections and improvements to the manual and plans. There is no need to request newer versions.

Ok I feel better. The errant hole will be covered by the large baseplate of the heater valve. I may shove a rivet in there as well.
 
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Extra hole

There's also revisions based on the engine and gear configuration. Hopefully the extra hole falls inside the 2" diameter. If not, seal it with fire putty and forgetaboudit.
 
Plans vs reality

Build a -3,-4,-6 and you have to really understand plans vs the finished product. Van designed the best in the industry, but options and changes are hard to capture. At least you only have a #40 hole that can be plugged with a rivet. The aforementioned kits didn't have anything but a bare firewall drawing..the rest was up to the builder.
 
Girraf said:
Need to Vent...

I have a clean #40 pilot hole in the firewall where one doesn't belong. How did that happen? Instructions say to drill a 2" hole for the cabin heat valve. Location depicted on dwg 19 (Firewall). Pilot hole drilled. I start noticing that all the other build logs have this hole in a slightly different location. I verified I read the drawing correctly. On a whim, I log onto Van's website and make sure my dwg is up to date to discover that full size print that I have is on rev 2 (May 2001) but the current version is rev 5 (April 2019). My gripe is that rev 3 contained the update I needed, which took place in August 2001....a full 18 years BEFORE I ordered my fuselage kit. How in the world I received a drawing that was that out of date is beyond me.

I understand that drawings get revised with time, and that we should periodically check in to see if changes were made between the time we received the prints and the time we go to build from said print, but I definitely expect that the printed drawings I receive are the most current version.

So much for this promise (taken from the intro section of the instructions)
A WORD ABOUT THE PLANS:
When the kits are shipped, they have the latest plans and manual revisions. The plans match the parts as shipped. Over time, we make changes, corrections and improvements to the manual and plans. There is no need to request newer versions.

Ok I feel better. The errant hole will be covered by the large baseplate of the heater valve. I may shove a rivet in there as well.
Click to expand...

You have drawings that show where to locate holes in the firewall????? :eek:

Us Jurassic RV-6 builders just got a blank sheet of stainless (and no firewall drawing) and we didn't know enough to complain about it....... :D
 
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Unacceptable? Try building virtually any other kit plane, I'm on a SX-300 build and you would really find those plans "unacceptable".
I was on the X47-B prototype build, working off of constantly changing engineering drawings, some people don't realize how good Van's documentation is.
 
Tommy123 said:
Unacceptable? Try building virtually any other kit plane, I'm on a SX-300 build and you would really find those plans "unacceptable".
I was on the X47-B prototype build, working off of constantly changing engineering drawings, some people don't realize how good Van's documentation is.
Click to expand...
TRUE… and Vans kits get better with each iteration. Computerization and CAD/CAM has brought things to a whole new level barely imagined when the 4/6/9 were designed.

However, for those still building on “older” kits, the plans/kits are not close to what is currently possible, the hours are many, and the frustrations not so rare. I respect that. My PERSONAL experience is that once you see the plans for, and do some work on a 12 or 14, your tolerance for the “old school” kits drops WAAAYYY off. Mine has. Yeah, I get it, they walked to school in the snow. Barefoot, Both ways. I’m just coming back on the playing field after many years on the sidelines. But what I did continue to read during that time - especially for the older kits, was the posts like the one above that could all start with WTH?!?! I get the frustration. I’m pretty mechanically minded, and good with my hands. But my hats off to the guys and gals that have slogged down this road before me. I’d build a 12… but it just is on the slow side of my mission. The 14 is too expensive. The 9A with a low hours Lycoming is the sweet spot. I just realize I don’t have the patience for 3 years of that build. So I’m looking for a flying 9A. If Vans could magically drop a modern refined 9A kit similar to the 12 - I’d be at the door with cash in hand. I wish I was younger. The next generation of kit builders will have it made. ;)
 
Phyrcooler said:
TRUE… and Vans kits get better with each iteration. Computerization and CAD/CAM has brought things to a whole new level barely imagined when the 4/6/9 were designed.

However, for those still building on “older” kits, the plans/kits are not close to what is currently possible, the hours are many, and the frustrations not so rare. I respect that. My PERSONAL experience is that once you see the plans for, and do some work on a 12 or 14, your tolerance for the “old school” kits drops WAAAYYY off. Mine has. Yeah, I get it, they walked to school in the snow. Barefoot, Both ways. I’m just coming back on the playing field after many years on the sidelines. But what I did continue to read during that time - especially for the older kits, was the posts like the one above that could all start with WTH?!?! I get the frustration. I’m pretty mechanically minded, and good with my hands. But my hats off to the guys and gals that have slogged down this road before me. I’d build a 12… but it just is on the slow side of my mission. The 14 is too expensive. The 9A with a low hours Lycoming is the sweet spot. I just realize I don’t have the patience for 3 years of that build. So I’m looking for a flying 9A. If Vans could magically drop a modern refined 9A kit similar to the 12 - I’d be at the door with cash in hand. I wish I was younger. The next generation of kit builders will have it made. ;)
Click to expand...

You raise an interesting question here, that I just started mulling recently.

I would love, love LOVE to build/own an RV-4. However, I know myself and where my skillset is, and while I could tug at the threads and eventually build an airworthy RV-4, I suspect - not know but suspect - that I could build one BETTER and probably FASTER if it had the same kind of plans/guides that the current RV-12 and RV-14 options have, or even the RV-8. And it does make me wonder what it would cost Vans to update the kits/instructions on the -4 and how many more they'd sell if they did. But this is just wistful spitballing at this point for me.
 
My greatest respect to anyone who build a 1st gen RV kit. A more challenging task no doubt, and in the age before the internet, its amazing to me how many actually got completed.

I've accepted that the 2nd gen kit plans aren't perfect, but they usually have most everything one needs even if you have you cross reference drawings or instructions to build the whole picture. I bet a good amount of time is saved in the 3rd gen kits simply by having combined step by step/diagram guidance from start to finish.

My complaint was not with the quality of the instructions, but with the configuration management to ensure we are actually getting the the most up to date set when your order a kit. An airplane is hard enough to build when your working from the proper instructions. Lucky for me, the error caused by the bad gouge was minor.
 
I don't know if Vans lists them but a check of what you have against the current revisions would probably help.
 
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