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Tom Maxwell

Well Known Member
Perhaps this is not the appropriate forum to post this in, if so, I apologize.

I just read Dougs vision of this site and I am looking forward to the ability to host images directly on this site. This will be a great feature that many have been asking for.

What else would you like to see on this site?

I for one would like to see the Van's builders manuals expanded to include a crossreference by building step number, part number, part name. It could include all of the neat pictures that everyone have already taken so I think it could be put together fairly quickly. Here is what I would like to see:

1) A separate area for each model (Doug already has this).

2) Written instructions beyond what is already in the building manuals.

3) A picture or pictures of the the step before during and after completion.

4) List of special tools or techniques used to complete the step.

5) Any "gotchas" or special instructions for that step.

I know that the many builders' sites out there already have tons of information on them. What I am proposing is that we bring all of that brainpower, experience, and pictures together into one location.

The way I envision this working is if I am building an RV7A and have a question or some doubts about a particular part or step, I go to the RV7A builders guide and:

1) Conduct a search by van's part number or...

2) Conduct a search by part description or...

3) Conduct a search by the construction step number in the manual or...

4) Conduct a search by major assembly or subassembly.

Immediately displayed is the step, a description of what is going on, anything special to look for, pictures of the parts involved, and pictures of the assembly process and final outcome.

Yes this would be a lot of work but I think considering the expertise of everyone on these boards, most of the work has already been done. It would just be a matter of pulling it all together, organizing it, and publishing it on the site.

This could be a volunteer project with a lead project manager for each model of RV and contributing volunteers. They could meet in a chat room and then take it one step at a time with everyone volunteering their experiences and pictures for each step. The manager might say, "OK let's work on step 1 of the empennage tonight. Does anyone have pictures of laying out the taper and radi on the HS-609PP reinforcement bars? Were there any special problems or procedures you used in doing this?" The project manager could then compile all of the information, weed out the duplicate, make some judgement calls on what is needed and what isn't, and then add it to the overall project.

Yes it would take a while to accomplish this but it would be a great resource for everyone to use and who knows, Van might be interested in publishing them as the official installation guides for building Van's aircrafts.

My thinking is kind of along the lines of Chilton's auto repair manuals only RV builder's guides.

Would this be worthwhile to everyone or is there already too much information out there amd this would just be more of the same and too much effort?

How about other features you would like to see on this site?
 
It sounds like a great idea (Chilton manual) if volunteers would help make it happen. One of the drawbacks to computers is their is so much information you can become lost in a sea of articles and never find what you're looking for. I have read things on a forum and later tried to find the same information and it's like it was never there. No matter how hard I search the same article seems to out there in LA LA land. I would be glad to help with the RV-9 portion if we had a layout and a direction. :)
 
Excellent, excellent idea. I usually scan 3-4 builder logs, this forum, the Yahoo Groups, etc. It would be much easier to have all the good info in one place. The Wiki is perfect for this. It has a discussion area already (the "discussion" tab on each page). All that's needed is a place for the pictures. Initially, the Wiki could just point to pictures on builders' web sites. Another cool thing is that the Wiki could combine the construction areas that are common (fuselage for -7/-9, wings for -7/-8, etc.).

Somebody just needs to jump in and start writing. Maybe we should start with the current building instructions? Would Vans give us permission to put them on the web?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we building these planes under license by Van's and isn't there something in the paperwork about disclosure of plans etc.?

I would think running this idea by Van's first would be prudent.

As far as online stuff...with Flash (not the plane), we should make small presentations with audio, pictures AND text for each step.
 
The Bearhawk guys have figured out a way to have an online plans viewer. You have to register with your plans number. Maybe associate our builder number to our login?
 
On second thought, we don't really need to start with Van's instructions. We could just paraphrase them. Builders could add more detailed information and pictures over time.

Not sure about audio (or video). That might be tough to do.

It looks like the Wiki might allow for image upload.

The more I look at that Wiki, the cooler it seems. There are so many articles spread all over the place on various web sites. Ten years from now, who knows how many will still be online. It would be cool to pull them all together into one place. This article on attaching the wing tips with hinges is an excellent example of what I'm talking about.
 
Tool Library

Here's a thought. The Short Wing Piper Club maintaines a tool library containing those necessary but seldom used tools (fabric punch testers, etc). Tools were loaned at no charge to club members for 1 month. Shipping charges back to the library were paid by the borrower. The library was "staffed" by a club volunteer. Tools were purchased with club dues. If we had an official Type Club, perhaps the dues paying members could build a similar tool crib containing the RV-10 emp bucking bar and a Parker tube flare tool, for example.
Steve
 
As I read this very excellent idea, I kept thinking I had seen something close to this before.

Then I went to the RV-10 Builders Link on Van page and remembered it was Mike Howes web site where I had seen a "manual" of sorts.

http://www.etigerrr.com/RV10HomePage.htm

Very informative Mike! And you've got one heck of a nice area in which to work. :)

Scott
 
Yes, exactly. There was another RV-10 builder as well that had a great step-by-step building log with pictures. I think he was building in the back of his store. Van's could cut out 3/4 of the instructions if they just had decent pictures. The Wiki would be great for that.

Unfortunately, the interest level in this seems fairly low. Personally, I've got enough project right now, not the least of which is building a plane.
 
Builders Logs

Yes there are very good builders logs out there and most information needed can be found. I doubt very much if anything anyone could put together is going to top Dan's 5500+ pictures of his installation. We all appreciate Dan's efforts, knowledge, and experience as well as those of everyone else who have great web sites.

My thought was to take something like Dan's site and just tweak it a little. Try to match up his steps with those in the book, add some part numbers and search capabilities, etc.

On second thought, this would probably be more work than it is worth. Builders can now go to any or multiple great sites and get probably 99% of the information they need. If not they can always ask questions here. It might be nice to be able to search on a part number and see a picture of the raw part, prepared part, installation process, and final look but I guess if we took too much more of the thinking out of the build process there wouldn't be much left to do except to plug tab A into slot B.

It would be nice to have a very detailed install manual with lots of pictures that takes us from step 1 to step 50,001, but the effort it would take to put it together may not be worth it.

I think I'll go order Dan's CD now. :)
 
The problem with Dan or anybody else's site, is that you end up going over the same cliffs. We all make mistakes. If you read someone's log only up to the point you need, you might not pick up the part where the builder says, "Oops I made a mistake 2 weeks ago." Or, "I sure wish I would have done this-n-that a month ago."

An up-to-date, step-by-step set of instructions with tips along the way would have been great while I was building. I agree that it would be a huge effort.
 
Actually, if I remember I try to go back and put updates where I screwed up. I haven't been through Dan's site in a while, but I think he does the same.

Anyhow, I kinda' like the idea of the wiki. We're actually using a wiki on our intranet at work. It's amazing how much information you can gather up in a very short amount of time, and most of it is right, believe it or not.

re: plans on the site. The vast majority of the plans are pretty clear. There are only a few spots where it's totally confusing and I'm sure Vans would be OK with the occasional photo of a particularly confusing section appearing on the site as it's in his best interests to make this as easy as possible.

It's amazing how easy these stupid things are to build in the first place. It blows my mind that we have resources like this that make it pratically childs play (lol...okay, it's still hard and I have the "spare parts" to prove it).
 
It's on my TODO list

Dave,

You hit the nail on the head. One of these days(tm), I plan on going back and cross referencing some of the key lessons I've learned, and adding correction NOTES alongside things in my builder's log where I made changes later, learned otherwise about assumptions made, etc. It's only a matter of free time, of which I have very little these days. It needs to be done, it would be extremely helpful, and I need to do it at some point. It is on my list! (the list is too long currently)

To anybody who uses my site as a "what to expect" guide, I urge you to read the Flying and Maintaining section first, because that's where all the little gotchas came out and were remedied.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

Davepar said:
The problem with Dan or anybody else's site, is that you end up going over the same cliffs. We all make mistakes. If you read someone's log only up to the point you need, you might not pick up the part where the builder says, "Oops I made a mistake 2 weeks ago." Or, "I sure wish I would have done this-n-that a month ago."

An up-to-date, step-by-step set of instructions with tips along the way would have been great while I was building. I agree that it would be a huge effort.
Click to expand...
 
I read Dan's site end to end a couple of times before I started building. Even though I am building a 8, I stll look at it often. I think I was the first guy to buy his CD.

THis kind of resource is invaluable. Thanks Dan.
 
dan said:
To anybody who uses my site as a "what to expect" guide, I urge you to read the Flying and Maintaining section first, because that's where all the little gotchas came out and were remedied.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There is lots of good stuff in your Flying and Maintaining section.

And just to be clear, I wasn't complaining. Dan and Walter and Matthew and Mike Shipper and many others logs have been extremely useful for me. And I know it's tough to remember to go back and update old sections--I'm not 100% in that department either.
 
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