[pierre smith]

I just installed it on Thursday and while tracking my wife back from the coast, it shows a transmit and as long as 30 minutes before the next ID and then 12 minutes at other times. Is this normal?

Thanks,

 

[L.Adamson]

I just installed it on Thursday and while tracking my wife back from the coast, it shows a transmit and as long as 30 minutes before the next ID and then 12 minutes at other times. Is this normal?

Ours always falls in the 9-12 minute bracket. Usually within seconds of 10 minutes. We do have to push the OK button for a good 10 seconds after the unit is on...........though. That's for the larger orange model.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 

[snowbird]

It should transmit ever 10 minutes in track mode. Give it as clear a view of the sky as you can, the antennas are under the SPOT logo. To put the unit in track mode you press the "check" button until the light goes out. It will then start flashing and stay in track mode for 24 hours.
I always send a check message to my own cell phone to confirm the functioning, then recycle the power and put the unit in track mode for the flight.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

It should transmit ever 10 minutes in track mode. Give it as clear a view of the sky as you can, the antennas are under the SPOT logo. To put the unit in track mode you press the "check" button until the light goes out. It will then start flashing and stay in track mode for 30 minutes.
I always send a check message to my own cell phone to confirm the functioning, then recycle the power and put the unit in track mode for the flight.

I think it stays in track mode continuously for 24 hours if not turned off before then. I have used it continuously for 4 hours on a flight leg without interruption.

 

[L.Adamson]

I think it stays in track mode continuously for 24 hours if not turned off before then. I have used it continuously for 4 hours on a flight leg without interruption.

Mine stays on too. Just haven't went 24 hrs with it. I don't know about the new smaller model, though.

L.Adamson

 

[snowbird]

Mine stays on too. Just haven't went 24 hrs with it. I don't know about the new smaller model, though.

L.Adamson

Corrected my post. It is 24 hrs.

 

[BrentHumphreys]

It transmits, but is not always heard by the satelite.

I was VERY dissapointed in mine. I am sure they work better when airborne. On the ground they are very poor.

I took mine to Costa Rica. It was in the optimal position on my backpack the entire trip, in track mode throughout the entire week long trip, and only got about 7 beacons out.

Performance in the US was better, but still very very poor.

I also noticed that it could take 30 minutes to an hour before a beacon would show up on the web page.

Customer service is very poor as well. Plan an hour if you call them.

 

[swixtt]

same here. i have the orange one and was less then impressed with my results. flying and wouldn't get a track for over 30min.

 

[Rosie]

I too have had some 'holes' in my track readings, but I do have to say that you must give it a clear view of the sky (and then I got less holes). I found that mine cannot sit between the seats of our RV-6A on the backrest bracket and 'see' satellites through the Koger Shade. I now have mine on top of the panel when in track mode, Rosie

 

[L.Adamson]

I too have had some 'holes' in my track readings, but I do have to say that you must give it a clear view of the sky (and then I got less holes). I found that mine cannot sit between the seats of our RV-6A on the backrest bracket and 'see' satellites through the Koger Shade. I now have mine on top of the panel when in track mode, Rosie

Ours sits on top of the glare shield and works time after time after time. It obviously must have a good satellite view in that position.

I'm more than pleased with it, as my wife placed her headset on the 911 button, after parking, and we got a call from SPOT assistance in about two minutes.

Now, Im sure than in the last year, there may have been a hole somewhere, but checking the last three cross country flights, when this subject came up a few weeks ago,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it didn't miss a beat. I have daughter that freaks out about flying, and has a fit.............. if it doesn't update!

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 

[rvmills]

Pierre,

Just looked at my last X-C, and it was a consistent 10 mins. Previous tracks looked pretty good as well. I keep the unit velcroed to the dash, FWIW. Best of luck working it through!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[gasman]

Mine will work from the kitchen table, and from the seat of my f-150. It hits every 10 minutes within seconds. But i have had a few holes.

The new small unit was on my wish list till I looked at the specs.......

Orig. SPOT.......... uses 2 aa batteries
Power on, unused Approx. 1 year. TRACK 14 days. 911 7 days. check OK 1900 messages.

New SPOT........ uses 4 aaa batteries
Power on, unused Approx. 95 days. TRACK 4.3 days. 911 2.8 days. ck OK 300 messages.

So I guess that's progress.......... I think I will keep the old big not improved unit.

 

[rvator51]

The new one has a more powerfull transmitter so you have less missed tracks. It also sends the previous 2 tracks each time it sends the current track so if the satellite didnt receive them earlier, it will fill them in from the current update.

 

[dmaib]

I have mine (big older model) sitting on the glareshield for every flight and it has been nearly flawless.

 

[pierre smith]

Thanks everybody....

...but there seems to be a delay from the time it transmits a track location until it shows up on the computer. My wife was home before the last transmit showed up.

Regards,

 

[snowbird]

...but there seems to be a delay from the time it transmits a track location until it shows up on the computer. My wife was home before the last transmit showed up.

Regards,

The track locations show up immediately on your main page (the one you need a password to get into). On the "Shared Page" you will still see all the 10 minute tracks but it only updates every 15 minutes so there could be up to a 25 minute delay until you see a location on the shared page.

 

[APilot4Fun]

Spot Track Update Delay

The SPOT seems to update very quickly to your account if you log into your SPOT page and go to where you would manage your account. It will post a new spot very quickly there. However, it seems that the public page has a bit of a delay in showing exactly where you are. Perhaps from 15 to 30 minutes.
I guess it gives you time to remove an unwanted spot before it appears on your public page.
Like others, I have had hit and miss performance with SPOT. We recently did a cross country drive and SPOT sat in the bed of the truck and reported our location almost flawlessly from NJ to the Grand Canyon (every 10 minutes except for a place in IA where we passed thru an area of heave rain showers). Once there, it was spotty when we were hiking due to the trees and perhaps less than optimal views of the satellites, due to terrain, despite having the unit facing up in an ideal position.
The new unit looks to have an improved antenna, a more powerful transmitter, a memory of some sort, and all in a smaller case. We use ours when we go hiking and I'll definitely want to get a newer unit when it comes available. I guess that they will offer new units to existing customers at some point.
In the PA28-140 that we fly, our SPOT sometimes has trouble getting the signal out due to the aircraft structure itself. The RV's seem to have less in the way of the view SPOT has to the sky and that may be why it works so great in these planes.
More reason for me to keep building!

 

[Lycosaurus]

Spot 2 transmission is intermittent

I am tracking two buddies on their round-trip flight to/from Sun n Fun. I find that sometimes the tracking is right on the money.... within a few minutes. Other times, the data can be stale for over 30 minutes.

I take this to mean that the unit has had transmission collisions, and maybe the third or fourth try (30 or 40 minutes later), the last few crumbs make it through. I believe it transmits the latest crumb, as well as the few previous to that (as a means for backup if the previous data had not made it through).

The Spot unit is on the glareshield, so should have a pretty clear view of the sky. This is also the Spot 2 unit, which is claimed to have improved transmission power.

Unfortunately, Spot is a 1 way communications system, so there is no transmission acknowledgement (or re-transmission on error). I guess with increased users, the system congestion will just get worse.

 

[chinch]

SPOT uses the Globalstar satellite network in simplex mode.

Our company, which provides airborne tracking to many hundreds of mission critical operators around the world, recommends that anyone who relies on tracking for SAR and mission support purposes only consider Iridium SBD (Duplex) solutions.

When the SPOT first came out, we put one in a Mooney next to an Iridium based GPS terminal on an around the world speed record attempt.

The Iridium terminal, which was on a three minute report rate ticked along like clockwork, dropping perhaps 1-2% of reports, which is about right for real world operation on a portable airborne installation. (Permanent installations with a TSOed antenna will significantly improve performance).

The SPOT, on a ten minute reporting rate, dropped about 40% of reports, and had gaps of over 200 miles between some reports. "Pi r squared" makes for a pretty big search area (>120,000 square miles) in that instance.

No, we are not a SPOT reseller. Yes, we are an Iridium reseller. But we have tracked hundreds of thousands of flying hours for airborne customers who operate in harms way, and we take that responsibility very seriously indeed.

We recommend to our customers who ask about SPOT that they do a lot of research, read all the "real world" reviews online, and read ALL documentation very closely, and be sure to understand exactly what you are getting for your money.

Chris

 

[dmaib]

Mine (older orange model) sits on my glareshield on every flight and does an excellent job of putting out a "track" every ten minutes or so. There will be holes occasionally, but overall pretty reliable. I think that a heavy cloud cover might sometimes keep it from seeing the satellite.
I think the delay in getting the track on the website is true for the shared page, but it seems to show up on my main page very quickly.

 

[L.Adamson]

Our SPOT has done very well!!!!!

Mine (older orange model) sits on my glareshield on every flight and does an excellent job of putting out a "track" every ten minutes or so. There will be holes occasionally, but overall pretty reliable. I think that a heavy cloud cover might sometimes keep it from seeing the satellite.
I think the delay in getting the track on the website is true for the shared page, but it seems to show up on my main page very quickly.

Our SPOT (older orange model) has also done very well on the main page. If it wasn't, our young daughter would flip out................as she waits for that 10 minute "blip". She tracks about every long cross country that we take, and we check the results as well. I've also heard of delays on the shared pages, but for direct access, it's within a minute of that 10, consistantly.

On one trip, we couldn't even get out of the plane for an unscheduled restroom stop.........before she called to see what was wrong. Turns out the 10 minute interval just coincided with the landing.

We even leave the SPOT on after landing to make sure she's recieved the last 10 minute mark.

So when I see 40% drop rates and so on, I have to say bull, at least not throughout the mountain west of the USA.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 

[Snowflake]

The SPOT, on a ten minute reporting rate, dropped about 40% of reports, and had gaps of over 200 miles between some reports. "Pi r squared" makes for a pretty big search area (>120,000 square miles) in that instance.

Not to be pedantic, but a gap between "known" points 200 miles apart means a circle of 100 miles radius, or only 30,000 square miles... Still, I agree that's a large area...

Many people having problems with the SPOT system are using the first-generation device that is not quite as simple to use as it could be. Once you figure out how to use it properly, it does seem to work quite well. I've only had trouble with dropped track points when in an area of poor GPS coverage, or when my SPOT hasn't been placed in an ideal spot in the airplane (or car).

I should add that i've only used mine in BC, Alberta, Washington, Oregon, and Idaho. No idea what the coverage is like elsewhere.

 

[chinch]

Not to be pedantic, but a gap between "known" points 200 miles apart means a circle of 100 miles radius, or only 30,000 square miles... Still, I agree that's a large area...

Sorry Rob, let me be more clear in my example - if both points are "known" (i.e. both have been successfully transmitted with locations and time stamps) then the gap between them is less relevant.

The question is what happens if you have an accident during an extended period in which the terminal fails to transmit a report. Let me be clear, this is not SPOT targeted - my point is relevant to any tracking terminal on any network.

If a given position report occurs at a known location and time, the search area increases exponentially (Pi r 2) with r being the distance flown by the aircraft since the last successful report.

If the terminal fails to transmit another report for 200 miles, the search radius right up until the successful transmission of the next report is 200 miles.

Furthermore, if that same terminal had been reporting reliably up until that point at 10 minute intervals, then in absence if any other information (radar tracks, ELT etc) SAR would reasonably assume an initial search radius of 10 minutes x [ground speed] from the Last Known Good position as a starting point, not 200 miles away where you are lying in in a broken airplane.

There is a certain amount of care that needs to be taken in the interpretation of tracking data especially in the heat of a search and rescue situation, and short reporting intervals and consistent reporting are critical success factors.

"Live" tracking is an incredibly useful safety and operational tool, and we have saved lives with our service.

But like all good tools, you have to know how it works, and what the limitations are. As reporting interval increases and transmission reliability decreases, the ability of the device to make a significant contribution in an emergency situation decreases. It is up to the purchaser to understand that equation, and make an informed decision.

 

[Ron Lee]

It might be far less area. If I am flying point A to point B, it is often a straight line. If you have multiple known points that are in a straight line, then I would assume a high chance that the plane is on that path...barring restricted areas, weather diversions, etc.

APRS offers improved reporting frequency compared to Spot.

 

[L.Adamson]

I do not agree --- through experience..

If the terminal fails to transmit another report for 200 miles, the search radius right up until the successful transmission of the next report is 200 miles.

Problem is, your using this "200 miles" as the base example. I've had SPOT for a year and a half. Pilot friends of mine have SPOT. We've seen many SPOT tracking reports on this forum. And I've never seen gaps anywhere close to 200 miles. At RV speeds it's around 30 miles between reporting points.

If the 911 button is pushed, the response is within a couple a minutes. I know, because ours was activated.

Ours is the older orange colored model. Once we figured out that you hold the "I'm Okay" button for a good 10 seconds after the unit has been turned on, then it never fails. In flight, we often check to see that both lights are simultaneously flashing every three seconds. We leave the unit on for the entire flight, as well as stops.

When these SPOT discussions come up, we've often looked through the records as well as our printouts..........for the timing variables. I'd be hard pressed to find one time where we never got that 10 minute blip within a minute or two. Asking just now, my wife say's she has not found a gap, since we learned to use it correctly. And that was a long time ago. We fly cross countries regularly.

So NO.................I do not agree with your initial post at all..

L.Adamson

 

[chinch]

Problem is, your using this "200 miles" as the base example. I've had SPOT for a year and a half. Pilot friends of mine have SPOT. We've seen many SPOT tracking reports on this forum. And I've never seen gaps anywhere close to 200 miles. At RV speeds it's around 30 miles between reporting points.

If the 911 button is pushed, the response is within a couple a minutes. I know, because ours was activated.

Ours is the older orange colored model. Once we figured out that you hold the "I'm Okay" button for a good 10 seconds after the unit has been turned on, then it never fails. In flight, we often check to see that both lights are simultaneously flashing every three seconds. We leave the unit on for the entire flight, as well as stops.

When these SPOT discussions come up, we've often looked through the records as well as our printouts..........for the timing variables. I'd be hard pressed to find one time where we never got that 10 minute blip within a minute or two. Asking just now, my wife say's she has not found a gap, since we learned to use it correctly. And that was a long time ago. We fly cross countries regularly.

So NO.................I do not agree with your initial post at all..

L.Adamson

Hi Lee

Thanks for your post - discourse is good, and I respect your right to disagree and hold an opinion based on experience that is different to mine.

In my first post, I referred to 200 miles because that was the gap that we saw on multiple occasions when testing a SPOT in an controlled airborne test. I am absolutely delighted that you have not seen similar results to ours - but your agreement or otherwise with my post does not make our results any more or any less real.

My second post was about the basic maths of calculating search areas for any tracking system, and the disproportionate importance that reporting interval and reliability of reporting has when interpreting track data in an emergency situation, and applies to any tracking terminal. In that second post, 200 miles was merely a number - the principle illustrated stands regardless of whether the number is was 20, 200 or 2000 miles.

Like so many others on this forum, I try to share hard learnt experience to prevent others repeating those mistakes. I am grateful that my current position affords me a somewhat unique perspective and insight into airborne tracking systems and how well they work (or don't), and I hope that some may find my contribution to be of relevance and perhaps even useful.

I am delighted that your chosen tracking solution is working well for you. At the end of the day, that is all that matters.

Best regards
Chris

 

[Snowflake]

The question is what happens if you have an accident during an extended period in which the terminal fails to transmit a report. Let me be clear, this is not SPOT targeted - my point is relevant to any tracking terminal on any network.

I think this would be irrelevant... If you have an accident during an extended dead-zone, nobody will know how far from your last "known good" point you are. You could have hit a mountain right after the last point, or you could have run out of gas 3 hours later (in an RV, at 200 mph...).

Either way, you have a breadcrumb trail leading up to the last point that strongly suggests you continued in that direction. Combined with flight plan info it wouldn't be hard to narrow the search pattern down to a narrow cone from the last known point. At least for starters.

If the terminal fails to transmit another report for 200 miles, the search radius right up until the successful transmission of the next report is 200 miles.

Again, I think this is irrelevant and wrong, for the same reasons as above... If another reporting point comes in, you don't need to search. If one doesn't come in, you can reasonably infer the search area based on last known track (which the breadcrumb trail offers) and flight characteristics.

But like all good tools, you have to know how it works, and what the limitations are. As reporting interval increases and transmission reliability decreases, the ability of the device to make a significant contribution in an emergency situation decreases. It is up to the purchaser to understand that equation, and make an informed decision.

Very true. I would add that while the SPOT isn't perfect, it's certainly the best "bang-for-the-buck" system we have right now, except perhaps for APRS in areas where you know you have coverage.