Do You Wear A Parachute When Performing Aerobatics?

  • Yes, Always. It's the FAA Regs.

    Votes: 19 26.8%

  • No, I think they are a waste of time and money.

    Votes: 21 29.6%

  • Sometimes, If I'm learning new manuvers.

    Votes: 13 18.3%

  • I never do aerobatics, and never will.

    Votes: 10 14.1%

  • What's a parachute?

    Votes: 8 11.3%
  • Total voters
    71
Geico266

Geico266

Well Known Member
I found out from a "knoweldgable" buddy that the FAA defines aerbatics as "an intentional manuver of more than a 60 degree bank, or 30 degree pitch up or down". AND you must be wearing a parachute if you are performing aerobatics. (Don't ask me how this conversation came up.;))

Do you wear a parachute?

Can you recommend a good one that I can sit on?

My next "mission" in aviation is to learn more aerobatic manuvers, and become proficent at them. Any schools I could attend / training in the NE area? Any advice from the crew would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT 9/19/2008: It was determined by contacting the FAA for regulation clairification that a solo pilot, in any airplane, DOES NOT NEED to wear a parachute. Weather you wear one or not while performing aerobatics, is a personal choice.
 
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from what I understand of the FAA regs on aerobatics, if your are flying solo a parachute is not required, but if you are carrying a pax then they must wear one.
 
Parachute may not be mandatory but definately a good idea

Per 91.307 of the FARs, if you are solo in your airplane, and thus a required crewmember, you are not required to wear a parachute.

91.307 Parachutes and parachuting
c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds?

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

That being said, chutes and acrobatics go well together. Paraphenialia Softies, Strong and National are all good chutes for the recreational pilot. I'm on my second Softie Wedge since 1990. Be sure to get and use a chute that is less that 20 years old and has been recently inspected and repacked by a qualified rigger.

Albert Thomas
N880AT
RV-8A QB
Never ending wiring
 
Wow! You mean I was not breaking the regs? :eek:

This just may be a first! ;)
 
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Here are the reg's, right from the feds.

FAA.gov said:
? 91.303 Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight?

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or

(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.

[Doc. No. 18834, 54 FR 34308, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91?227, 56 FR 65661, Dec. 17, 1991]

? 91.305 Flight test areas.

No person may flight test an aircraft except over open water, or sparsely populated areas, having light air traffic.

? 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(a) No pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a parachute that is available for emergency use to be carried in that aircraft unless it is an approved type and?

(1) If a chair type (canopy in back), it has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger within the preceding 120 days; or

(2) If any other type, it has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger?

(i) Within the preceding 120 days, if its canopy, shrouds, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or other similar synthetic fiber or materials that are substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, or other fungi and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or

(ii) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section.

(b) Except in an emergency, no pilot in command may allow, and no person may conduct, a parachute operation from an aircraft within the United States except in accordance with part 105 of this chapter.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds?

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to?

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by?

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with ?61.67 of this chapter.

(e) For the purposes of this section, approved parachute means?

(1) A parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a technical standard order (C?23 series); or

(2) A personnel-carrying military parachute identified by an NAF, AAF, or AN drawing number, an AAF order number, or any other military designation or specification number.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34308, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91?255, 62 FR 68137, Dec. 30, 1997; Amdt. 91?268, 66 FR 23553, May 9, 2001]
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All crew members are required to wear parachutes when conducting acro.

Everything is fine when the maneuver goes good, but when the wing departs the airplane because of a botched maneuver.....it's good to have a chute on your back.

Get a Softie, best chute IMO.
 
Your knowledgeable buddy has his facts a little off, as others have pointed out.

One consideration in aerobatics- if you fly a side-by-side (6,7,9) with a tip-up, chances are very good that you will not be able to jettison your canopy, so wearing a chute is just a false sense of security. This issue has been debated to death and is in the archives.
 
sprucemoose said:
One consideration in aerobatics- if you fly a side-by-side (6,7,9) with a tip-up, chances are very good that you will not be able to jettison your canopy, so wearing a chute is just a false sense of security. This issue has been debated to death and is in the archives.
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If your canopy is configured as in the original RV-6, without the struts, the canopy will jettison just fine.
 
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Parachute....To Wear or not to Wear

Good discussion on chutes....perhaps a better one is how to get out of a out- of- control (or in control) RV. I have a RV-8...I would speculate that if I were able to get the canopy open in flight for egress it would slice off the rudder and render the aircraft totally out-of -control both in yaw and roll, and with unusual side "G" forces... getting out for a slik let down would be impossible at best...we haven't even talked about the back seater yet !!!

FYI...according to AOPA Legal:

FAA Office of Chief Counsel has stated the below:

If none of the aircraft occupants, including the pilot and other crew members
are wearing a parachute, then banking of the aircraft relative to the horizon
cannot exceed 60 degrees and the nose-down/up attitude relative to the horizon
must be 30 degrees or less. FAR 1.1 defines crewmember.

Further, Any maneuver which is not required by the regulations for any
certificate or rating must be taught employing parachutes pursuant to 91.307(c).

ZMAN
 
Geico266 said:
Even when solo in an -3? :confused:
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It?s your decision whether you wear one or not. I think I?d like to have an ?out? if something goes wrong. As far as getting out of an aircraft while it?s in flight. If you can get in it with a chute on, you should be able to get out of it. Allen Silverman has a good step by step procedure for getting out of an aircraft in flight. As someone said, ?it?s your one last chance?☺
 
Mel said:
If your canopy is configured as in the original RV-6, without the struts, the canopy will jettison just fine.
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True, if it is configured without struts AND without the newer, gooseneck style hinges.

As a side question0 are you aware of any actual in-flight jettison of a -6 canopy? I am not, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
 
Spins are an aerobatic maneuver. Call your local FSDO inspector, have them witness you solo in a RV-3,4,5,etc and do a few aerobatic maneuvers without a parachute and see what they have to say about it.


I'm out:)
 
sprucemoose said:
True, if it is configured without struts AND without the newer, gooseneck style hinges.
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The proper procedure for the "goose-neck" hinges is to cut the slots in the boot cowl and cover with tape. I use a "3-M" tape that glider pilots use to seal wing roots. I replace the tape every time I pull the canopy.
 
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I can't see the confusion with this one. 91.307 (c) says that crewmembers are exempt. If I'm the only guy on board, then I must be a crewmember. Done deal.
 
zman said:
Good discussion on chutes....perhaps a better one is how to get out of a out- of- control (or in control) RV. I have a RV-8...I would speculate that if I were able to get the canopy open in flight for egress

ZMAN
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I can and has been done. You'll be much happier if you have a chute while doing so. Do a search on Von Alexander.

DaveB
 
Geico266 said:
Nothing on Von Alexander, sorry.
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Von was a relatively early RV-8 builder and prolific poster on the Matronics list.

He was killed after experiencing an engine fire in his -8 on the way home from a fly-in.

The relevance here is that Von jumped out of the airplane several hundred feet above the ground. It was reported that he owned and frequently wore a parachute, but didn't have it on his accident flight.

Although I never met him face-to-face, he seemed a thoughtful builder and genuinely nice guy. His death really shook up the fairly small RV-8 internet community at the time.
 
flyeyes said:
The relevance here is that Von jumped out of the airplane several hundred feet above the ground. It was reported that he owned and frequently wore a parachute, but didn't have it on his accident flight.
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I remember von, and this accident, very well. In the interest of accuracy, it was not determined that he jumped out of the aircraft. His departure from the aircraft may have been accidental, but we will never know. Just want to set that record straight.
 
Mel said:
The proper procedure for the "goose-neck" hinges is to cut the slot in the boot cowl and cover with tape. I use a "3-M" tape that glider pilots use to seal wing roots. I replace the tape every time I pull the canopy.
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Good point. How many of the newer style tip-ups are being built this way though?

To avoid thread hijack, I am going to move this to a new thread, because I think it is a worthwhile discussion.

edit: new thread is here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=256107#post256107
 
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Parachutes

Yes I always wear a chute however, not because it's in the regs, but because I fly a lot of close formation and have a tendency to do bunches of acrobatics as well. As a result, the chute is part of me and the plane. Even when all I'm doing is flying out for lunch or x-country.
 
little thread drift, sorry

I have read every NTSB RV entry. I might have missed it but I did not note an event where someone bailed out of an RV with a parachute and lived to talk about it. I know, I know that fact has nothing to do with the regs.
 
I don't believe

a parachute is required if you are solo..

There a a bunch of youtube videos that will get me busted if I'm wrong..

It would be hard to bend an RV doing acro anyway..even in my most bothed manovers the worst I have seen is 5G recorded on the Dynon..RV's are not designed to break until 9G.
Purely personal opinion but if you have not been trained on a specific manouver you shouldn't be trying it..

I mean sure, I haven't been shown a snap roll from the inverted at the top of a loop....But I'm good at both manovers so combining them...Sure I'll do it..:)

Frank
 
Larry,

You are NOT required to wear a chute for solo acro regardless of the number of seats in your airplane. The FAA is just trying to protect potential passengers, not the pilot.

A quick search of the IAC site shows these folks an hour flight from you. They fly a Pitts S-2A. Good trainer. You won't regret having professional aerobatic instruction whether you ever intend to get into competition or not. The benefits have already been written about ad infinitum.

Great Planes Aerobatics
106 Hackberry
Lee?s Summit, MO 64064
816/373-8675 (Office)
816/373-5479 (Fax)
greatplanes@sprintmail.com
 
sandifer said:
Larry,

You are NOT required to wear a chute for solo acro regardless of the number of seats in your airplane.
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I just CONFIRMED this with the local FSDO. No passengers, No chute. If you are solo, no chute required.
 
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Another good option would be..."when performing aerobatics and/or flight testing."
 
Parachutes

Maybe y'all can help me out here. I'm considering a placard for my RV-4 that reads:

The pilot of this aircraft intentionally exceeds bank angles of 60 degrees relative to the horizon and exceeds nose-up & nose-down attitudes of 30 degrees relative to the horizon on every flight. Parachutes are required for all occupants of this aircraft for such flight (except for when the pilot flies solo). You are welcome to fly in the rear seat of this aircraft, if you are willing to provide the pilot and yourself with a parachute approved by the FAA that has been approved, inspected, and repacked by an FAA qualified parachute rigger within the past 120 days.

Please help me with editing the above to satisfy applicable regulations.

Thanks,
Barney
 
szicree said:
I can't see the confusion with this one. 91.307 (c) says that crewmembers are exempt. If I'm the only guy on board, then I must be a crewmember. Done deal.
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You are soooo right it hurts! ;)

It hurts my head to read the FAA regs. Why don't they just come out and say it? Solo pilots do not need parachutes for aerobatics.

Was that so hard FAA Reg writers? DUH! ;)
 
Whether or not it's required or you could get out of the plane in an emergency ... wearing a parachute makes my family at ease. At lease it reduced the complaints, that was enough to make the cost well worth it.
 
Geico266 said:
You are soooo right it hurts! ;)

It hurts my head to read the FAA regs. Why don't they just come out and say it? Solo pilots do not need parachutes for aerobatics.

Was that so hard FAA Reg writers? DUH! ;)
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Because if they wrote them in plain language, there wouldn't be any way to make a loophole out of it and blame us for our misinterpretation when things go wrong. :eek:
 
What type of parachute?

I am building a -7 and intend to use a parachute. I am also 6'4" tall. What type of parachute would be the best choice to avoid compromising interior room fo my oversized body?

Larry
 
Larry, My back pack is the same thickness as my back cushion. So when I wear the chute, I simply remove the cushion.
 
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