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N733JJ

Well Known Member
While flipping through the August issue of Sport Aviation, I noticed a very familiar plane / photo in the Sky Struck (LoPresti) ad on page 120. It is definatly a slightly doctored picture that Ed Hick took of my plane a couple years back, and posted here:

http://www.vansairforce.net/EdHicks/733JJ2.JPG

Looking at the ad, I wasn't even sure of what was being advertised and there is no web site mentioned. I called the company and asked to talk to sales. Jim Shaft called me back and explained the ad was for a lighting system. When I mentioned that the plane in the ad was mine he laughed, said they don't even make them for RV-8's but they do fit 7's and 10's.

I expalined that the RV world is a small one, that many people know my plane and that I didn't appreciate it being used in an ad without my permission or that of the photographer, after all, Ed ownes the photo. Jim said he would look into the matter and get back to me. It has been two weeks and I have not heard a word.

I don't know what the laws are about lifting pictures off the web for commercial purposes but at best it is unethical. I suspect they used my plane because it is a bit more generic and less well known then say, The Doll.

I have no knowledge of Sky Struck or its products but I do not like thier business practices.

Scott A. Jordan
N733JJ
 
This is crappy business....

Tell ED to go after them for royalties on the pic.

It would be different if they used a pic from a general flying or something that would be concidered public domain but this is not the case here.

Stock photographs are expensive! The rules for using them are really complex. These people took the short and easy way out and they need to pay for it!

Send them a certified letter stating that if they do not pay up, you will be getting a third part involved and at a minimum demand that they stop using the photo.

There are allot of lawyers in the RV community that I am sure would love to help you out.
 
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Let's be careful about jumping into litigation

From what's been presented this certainly appears to be a wrong that needs to be 'righted' however as members of the overall aviation community. WE are all too painfully aware of the effects that litigation has had on almost everything we do. Parts, insurance, consumables, etc. Unfortunately as a society we are using litigation as a 1st or 2nd resort rather than a last resort. When we succumb to this behavior within the community. We may be guilty of promoting exactly the thing which could ultimately price our beloved passion beyond our means. I'm not saying there isn't a time and a place, but in my many years as an exec in the insurance industry, my belief is that if individuals took a more active role in resolving conflicts directly, there would be fewer insurance premium increases, prices would stabilize, and yes there would be at hit to some attorneys life styles.
 
It happened to me

In my case a commercial newsletter, most of us are familiar with, used my pictures and my story without permission or attribution of any kind. When I brought it up to the editor his basic response was "Well I found it on the internet somewhere." Still no apology or credit to this day but at least it wasn't done to me again.

It is illegal and unethical and just plain bad sense.

On my website I use an Ed Hicks photo of my plane, that I paid for him to take, with his permission.
 
Ask for permission

I agree. It is not ethical to copy and paste anything from a website that is intended to be published elsewhere, unless you have the copyright or owners permission.

I have about a dozen photo's of completed RV's on my site. In each case, I either took the photo myself, or contacted the owner and received permission before posting the photo. I MHO that's the only way to do it.
 
I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and I am no lawyer but....

It is my impression is that a photo posted on the internet is available and legal to anyone to use as they see fit unless it is patented or copyrighted or whatever the term is for photos.

Even if it were illegal I suspect the expense, aggravation and time consumed by a lawsuit would far exceed any monetary return.
 
Photo abuse

N395V said:
It is my impression is that a photo posted on the internet is available and legal to anyone to use as they see fit unless it is patented or copyrighted or whatever the term is for photos.

Even if it were illegal I suspect the expense, aggravation and time consumed by a lawsuit would far exceed any monetary return.
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Having worked with professional photographers for many years, I can tell you that a number of them spend a fair amount of time chasing after illegal use of their property. The digital age and Internet have made this even more of a chore.

By virtue of taking the photo, it is automatically copyrighted by the photographer although it is better if he/she marks it as such. Most of us are amateurs so we don't think much about this, but the professionals do. Essentially a photograph is "owned" by the photographer in perpetuity unless the photographer specifically signs away all rights.

Even photos that are purchased by a client for use in advertising are still owned by the photographer. Anyone other than the client who uses a photo for commercial purposes, e..g., to promote their business, must have an agreement with the photographer for the use of the photo whether or not a fee is charged.

Likewise, the photographer must first obtain a release from the subject (in our case the aircraft owner) before he/she can use a photograph for commercial purposes. Again the person or object being photographed may or may not be compensated depending on the agreement between the two parties.

Just because a photo is placed on the Internet does not mean it is fair game for anyone to use, although as a practical matter it is very difficult (and potentially expensive) to stop this practice.

My advice, if you don't want a picture of your airplane copied and used elsewhere then don't post it.

Chris
 
N395V said:
It is my impression is that a photo posted on the internet is available and legal to anyone to use as they see fit unless it is patented or copyrighted or whatever the term is for photos.
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That's true but every photograph is copyrighted unless the photographer has specifically given up his copyright. The photo does not have to be marked to be copyright protected either.

If you want to use a picture that you find on the internet, please contact the photographer before you use it. It is unethical and illegal to use a photo without permission.

Check out http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html if you want all the legal details of copyrights.
 
Looter's

My company spent over 20k getting several other companies to quit posting our copyright material on their websites, as if it were theirs.

Some trimmed off the pages where the copyright notices were printed and scanned them right to their site.

It is still an ongoing issue, every few months someone does this to some level. If they were to ask me if they could use it, I would offer to licence the pages out for a very reasonable charge. And of course they would need to give Genuine Aircraft Hardware Credit for it's creation along with displaying the copyright notice.

Your right, it feels crappy to have someone take your effort and pretend it is there own. I have letters of authorization from manufacturers where I wished to use their material.

Cooperation is what holds us together.
 
It's my understanding that at this point you can charge them anything you want for the picture and they'd have to pay up. Not only do they steal from you, but when you call them out about it, they have a less than positive attitude about it. I'd become a pain in their rear just because of the lack of response and negative attitude than anything else. I thought they were a good company
 
Devil's advocate.

When mine is finished, I think I would be pleased if someone liked it enough to put it in a widely circulated ad, as long as it was pro aviation.
 
Enough said

Yes John, that is you but Lopresti took you out of the picture. I guess they were afraid you might be recognisable and that would definatly not be legal.

I do not plan to pursue this any further. I have made it know that I do not endorse (or even know anything about) the company or its products. It is not worth the time or money to fight it. It will be interesting to see if the picture is used in future ads.

As stated, Ed ownes teh photo and he can persue the matter if he wishes. I have not been in contact with him over the matter, he is nearly impossible to reach, even by e-mail.

Scott
 
We have people ask all the time for permission to reprint articles or photos from our site (copyrighted). If they are good people and for a good cause, I give them permission. If I find people have used my intellectual property without asking, I contact them and request that they remove it. If they don't comply, I burn them on the web.

Fortunately, I can do a lot of damage to their their business this way and many have pleaded that I remove them from our black list. People who are doing this and want to play hardball better realize that search engines today work pretty fast after something is posted and when you have a site with 40-50K visits per month, their business can decline pretty quickly when my black list shows up ahead of their web page.

Legal steps are usually a waste of time/ money.
 
rv6ejguy said:
Fortunately, I can do a lot of damage to their their business this way and many have pleaded that I remove them from our black list. People who are doing this and want to play hardball better realize that search engines today work pretty fast after something is posted and when you have a site with 40-50K visits per month, their business can decline pretty quickly when my black list shows up ahead of their web page.

Legal steps are usually a waste of time/ money.
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Note to self: Stay of Ross' S-list. :D
 
Hey I found this thread as I'm trying to get some information on Sky Struck. I came across their ad in the December issue of Sport Aviation and STILL NO WEB SITE and the funny thing is...the picture is STILL BEING USED!

I hesitate even calling these guys after all this.

- Peter

PS - However, I don't blame them for taking CJ's mug out of the picture! :D
 
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