scrollF4

scrollF4

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Happy New Year, Gang.

New guy, drawing back on the bowstring to order an RV-7 kit, and ask for advice: Do I really need to purchase a full-up took kit from someone like Avery Tools, or do I reap better savings/results by piecemealing a kit from the VAF classifieds? I'd guess an all-new took kit would guarantee complete selection and quality, but at additional cost.

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You will need to use essentially all of the tools in the Avery (or similar) toolkit. It is possible that one or two of the little things didn't get used, but I think I used em all.

You can certainly piece together a kit by buying used, but it will take a while - unless you see someone selling the whole deal. If you see a good squeezer, bucking bar, drill or other high value tool before you buy your kit you can pick it up and then omit it from the toolkit purchase.
 
Because I have many of the tools needed already, I am piecing together the needed tools, Ebay, CraigsList, Harbor Freight, and the like...and crossing them off my list as they are acquired. There is no doubt I will be ordering some of the tools that I can't find...from Avery, like the deburring tool and the Micro countersink cage and bits. You will be wanting a DRDT-2 and there is slim to no chance of finding in on CL or Ebay. Avery or Planetools , or theYard will get my call. Do you need to chunk down for the whole lot in one go, well no...but like was said , you will need all the tools at some point.

Alex
 
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Go for the tool kit!

scrollF4 said:
Happy New Year, Gang.

New guy, drawing back on the bowstring to order an RV-7 kit, and ask for advice: Do I really need to purchase a full-up took kit from someone like Avery Tools, or do I reap better savings/results by piecemealing a kit from the VAF classifieds? I'd guess an all-new took kit would guarantee complete selection and quality, but at additional cost.

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Go for the tool kit!
In the larger scheme of things, you might be able to earn more money, but you can not make time. You will need and want time.
The time you take piecemealing just slows you down.
Bob got me started about 11 years ago, he knows what you need, before you ask.

We now sell some of the same tools, but I always recommend Bob for the full setup, because he as it nailed and his prices are reasonable.

He is so dedicated to spending time with his business, I don't think he has finished his RV4 within those years since I have known him, and he said he was pretty far along then.

You can recover some of your cost by selling piecemeal when your done. Personally I could not sell the tools in my toolbox. But if you will only use them for this one (large) job, it might work for you when your done.

P.S. There are many vendors of good reputation such as Cleaveland Tools and others. They have all treated me well

Best wishes!
 
GAHco said:
Go for the tool kit!
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I couldn't agree more. My tool kit came from Brown Tool. I'm early in my build (working on the emp...just starting the elevators), and I've used almost every tool in the kit. I've also had to buy many extra tools. Most of the extras are not mandatory, but they sure make things easier.

Good luck...have fun!
 
I didn't buy anyone's full kit as I already had a lot of the tools needed. Over time, I did add tools I originally thought I wouldn't need. I.E., pneumatic squeezer, DRDT-2, 3 different tungsten bucking bars, foot control and bench mount for the squeezer, etc. I've also bought more clecos than come with the kits. Having built both wings at the same time I didn't think the recommeded number of clecos were enough. Since I bought the DRDT-2, I haven't used my C-frame at all. Probably would not buy it again.
 
I haven't found the need for a hand squeezer yet. I went for the QB kit, so I didn't have to do the big rivets in the wing spars. Do yourself a favor and spend the dosh for the pneumatic squeezer, though. That has got to be my single favorite tool in the whole build so far. Nor did I buy the toolkit. Ebay was my best friend for a while for some used big-ticket items, but I definitely had to lean on Avery and Brown Tool for things like squeezer set kits and rivet sets.
 
John Courte said:
I haven't found the need for a hand squeezer yet. I went for the QB kit, so I didn't have to do the big rivets in the wing spars. Do yourself a favor and spend the dosh for the pneumatic squeezer, though. That has got to be my single favorite tool in the whole build so far. Nor did I buy the toolkit. Ebay was my best friend for a while for some used big-ticket items, but I definitely had to lean on Avery and Brown Tool for things like squeezer set kits and rivet sets.
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Funny, I built my -9 with the Avery's hand squeezer and found no need for the pneumatic squeezer. By the time I was done with the plane I had the strongest grip of anyone I know.
 
I went with Cleaveland tools...

They have a great kit for 2K....

http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/

I also bought the DRDT-2 from Aircraft Spruce because it was local (that thing is HEAVY and expensive to ship) and they have a policy of price matching. I found one slightly less than ACS was quoting and they lowered the price at the counter when I bought it.

The reason I bought the DRDT-2 is it is superior in everyway for dimpling skins. No hammer involved. The C frame from Avery or Cleaveland is noisy and you could get by without the DRDT-2...however, these things hold their value and buy the DRDT-2 (save the shipping box for later) and re-sell it down the road for what you paid for it. The Cleaveland kit already has the C frame and I did not delete it mainly because you can use it for Back-Riviting; it has the extra set that uses a rivet gun. This works VERY WELL and well worth it. Backriveting video at the bottom of this page: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CF80

Also the Cleaveland kit comes with the famous Main Squeeze. I had tryed the Main Squeeze at their booth at Oshkosh and I wanted one. Again, the advantage is you can use it for setting rivets OR dimpling ribs and skins. I like that it's quiet and fast to use. While building you need choices.

Another item I think is mandatory is my Pneumatic Squeezer. Really a perfect machine and again, you can sell it for what you paid for it. The Main Squeeze Yokes and Pneumatic Squeezer Yokes are inter-changable and I just bought a 4 inch no-hole to complete the 3 Yokes you need for the entire Airplane. Also, the Pneumatic can either set rivets (very nice looking rivets) or dimple.

One last thing is a Tungsten Bucking Bar. Get one. Fantastic tool.

You can't have too many tools........

Bob
 
I'll go against the grain

and say No, you do not need to purchase a Full kit of tools.

Start checking around with local builders, EAA members, and see what may be available. I found a local RV-6 builder who had lots of stuff collecting dust on his shelf. He said no way to selling it, since he may need it again. BUT he said I can borrow some of it. SO I have a note posted on my shop wall with a list of borrowed tools. So for no charge I have a C-frame dimpler, 2 hand squeezers, 300+silver clecos, deburring tool and an engine hoist.

I've always had lots of tools. But try to only buy tools I will use on multiple projects.

Pneumatic Squeezer, R2D2, tungsten bars get expensive quick, and a luxury I couldn't afford. YMMV
 
Piecemeal is hard

Collecting tools piecemeal is hard because you don't know what you need. If money is no object, definitely go for the pre-packaged tool kits. If you decide to collect the tools piecemeal, study the tool kits very carefully along with the comments here plus get advice from your EAA chapter and other builders. For example, don't just buy any hand seamer. Some are meant for AC duct work and don't work as well as the vise grip seamers with the rounded edge.

I went the piecemeal way. It took a long time. I started with the recommended tool list from Van's and added tools to the list I thought I needed. I learned to know exactly which tool I needed before bidding or buying from another builder. Some were purchased from Avery and Cleaveland.

I did save money doing it piecemeal. My general goal was 1/3 of retail via ebay, 1/2 retail used from other builders and wait for sales from the tool vendors. My rough estimate was I saved about 45-50% off the complete packages. Would I do it again? Yes, unless I won the lottery or needed tools fast.
 
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Do I really need a full-up took kit?

Gents,
I really do appreciate the feedback and tips...it gives me a great vector.

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Sid Mayeux
 
larrynew said:
Collecting tools piecmeal is hard because you don't know what you need. If money is no object, definitely go for the pre-packaged tool kits. If you decide to collect the tools piecemeal, study the tool kits very carefully along with the comments here plus get advice from your EAA chapter and other builders. For example, don't just buy any hand seamer. Some are meant for AC duct work and don't work as well as the vise grip seamers with the rounded edge.

I went the piecemeal way. It took a long time. I started with the recommended tool list from Van's and added tools to the list I thought I needed. I learned to know exactly which tool I needed before bidding or buying from another builder. Some were purchased from Avery and Cleaveland.

I did save money doing it piecemeal. My general goal was 1/3 of retail via ebay, 1/2 retail used from other builders and wait for sales from the tool vendors. My rough estimate was I saved about 45-50% off the complete packages. Would I do it again? Yes, unless I won the lottery or needed tools fast.
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Well said!
 
I just went through this.

I recently ordered my tools and kit. In the process, I sat down with some RV builders here in the twin cities, particularly Tom Berge (multiple offender) and made a list of what you actually need to build an RV. I would be happy to chat with you regarding this list. All said and done it cost me $1500 bucks. Significantly less than what the tool manufacturers would have you purchase up front. If you stay in the build you can add luxuries later. PM me if you want a copy of the list. I'd be happy to chat with you about it. By the way, the above number does not include bench power tools...they cost about $400...or an air compressor. That cost about $400 bucks. I
 
aarvig said:
If you stay in the build you can add luxuries later.
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You are more likely to stick with the build if you have the proper tools and stick with the plans as much as possible. Prime non alclad or steel parts only. It will still out live you. I recommend Bench mounted band saw, 6" grinder, 10" drill press, belt/disc sander. 26 gal+ compressor mounted outside under cover, large vacuum cleaner, lots of lighting, drdt-2, pneumatic squeezer, dremel kit, two 30"x7' work benches, heated and air conditioned shop separate from house, plywood box w/used furnace blower and 5" pleated filter for sanding/deburring, exhaust fan for priming inside, paint respirator. Of course all of the tools in the Avery tool kit. I know I would be very aggravated at this point(60 hrs) in the build if I did not have the above tools. Good luck and have fun.
 
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