[wingspan99]

I'm interested in buying an airframe [an EAB airframe] (not an RV-3) that's been deregistered and decertified, and using all or most of the parts to make a new EAB aircraft. What's the difference from a "building" point of view between using these airframe parts to build a new EAB plane, vs using a quickbuild kit where all the parts are framed up and riveted already. I'm not clear on the criteria for using pre-made parts. If I were to de-rivet all the parts back to a kit, then re-rivet them back together, have I built it? Many of the kits are all pre-drilled, so drilling could not be the dividing line, maybe it's the riveting? A new kit is almost ten times more $, so it would be worth it to use these parts. I would be doing a complete new panel and FWF. I don't need the Repairman's Certificate which has different criteria so I really just want to know about registering and getting the Airworthiness Certificate. -Tom in CO

 

[az_gila]

Could you correctly fill in this checklist with an already completed wing as an example?

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/amateur_built/kits/media/AmBuiltFabAssyCklistFW.pdf

Not sure if this is the latest FAA version, but you get the point...

 

[wingspan99]

Good info there

Thank you. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. If the wing was completed by an amateur builder previously, it would be credited as amateur built for the next owner of a project?

 

[Weasel]

Thank you. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. If the wing was completed by an amateur builder previously, it would be credited as amateur built for the next owner of a project?

Correct. At least the way I read it

 

[vic syracuse]

Well, you need to be a little careful here. As an example, you can not take a bunch of built assemblies from of a bunch of different airplanes that have been deregistered, claim all of the parts were built by amateurs, assemble them together into a new airplane, and then expect to license it as an amateur-built aircraft. Kind of pushing the limits.

Vic

 

[GeraldC]

You can find details on what you can and can't do here:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 20-27G.pdf

From pages 11 and 12 of that document:

You will not receive credit for work done on, or the use of, salvaged major assemblies or subassemblies when determining whether your amateur-built aircraft has met the major portion requirement. This would include any ?rebuilding? or ?alteration? activities to return these components to an airworthy condition.​

So de-riveting parts and putting them back together won't help you toward the 51% rule. Also, from the previous paragraph:

You should contact your local FAA MIDO or FSDO prior to using a
major assembly or subassembly, such as wings, fuselage, or tail assembly from a type-certificated aircraft. As an amateur builder, you should be aware that when building your aircraft, the excessive use of major assemblies or subassemblies from type-certificated aircraft would most likely render it ineligible for certification under
? 21.191(g).​

 

[krw5927]

Well, you need to be a little careful here. As an example, you can not take a bunch of built assemblies from of a bunch of different airplanes that have been deregistered, claim all of the parts were built by amateurs, assemble them together into a new airplane, and then expect to license it as an amateur-built aircraft. Kind of pushing the limits.

Vic

Couldn't you successfully and correctly do this if all the parts and assemblies were from other amateur-built aircraft??

 

[wingspan99]

Use of Salvaged Assemblies from Type-Certificated Aircraft

[Removed sections about using Type Certificated parts since that was not the intent]

There is one passage in AC 20-27G that does mention previously built amateur-built major assemblies on Page 10.

**********************************************************
(5) Identifying Circumstances Not Considered Commercial Assistance. Commercial assistance does not include the instance where an incomplete aircraft is sold to another builder and the second builder completes the aircraft. In such a case, the work performed by the first builder or subsequent amateur builders, counts toward completion of the major portion by the second builder. The burden of proof that the aircraft is amateur-built and eligible for an experimental certificate remains with and is the responsibility of the applicant. The second builder should obtain as much detailed information and documentation (see paragraph 7h) from the original builder as possible. If this information is not available, we may not be able to find compliance to the major portion requirement of § 21.191(g).
***********************************************************

On Page 6, AC 20-27G states that it may not apply to any kit that was purchased prior to 9/30/2009. So if the kit receipt or even the kit mfr record for that serial numbered kit shows a purchase date prior to that, and the kit was not changed or re-evaluated since then, the Prior Policy of AC 20-27 might apply. Now what does that one say different from the new AC 20-27G?

 

[AV8AZ]

AC 20-27G
c. Purchasing Prefabricated or Assembled Components and Materials.
(1) To meet the intent of § 21.191(g) and to be eligible for an amateur-built experimental airworthiness certificate, you need to present satisfactory
evidence to show that the aircraft was not fabricated and assembled from completely prefabricated parts or kits.

§ 21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:
(g) Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook
the construction project solely for their own education or recreation.

If plane X was initially legally and correctly certified as an EAB, then the airframe has by definition been verified as having been built for education or recreational purposes. It's really as simple as that. Nothing intrinsically changes with the airframe components if it is de-registered. The "only" difficulty (which may be insurmountable) is proving that the bucket of bolts that you're trying to re-certify is the same bucket of bolts formerly known as "Plane X."

The spirit (and letter) of the reg is that EAB aircraft are allowed deviate from mandated design standards yet still be certified to fly on the premise that the individuals ought to have the right to build their own plane for educational and/or recreational purposes (i.e. not doing an end-around on the Part 23 regs). That individual has the right to sell the EAB to the next guy, but in theory he can't do it as a business. But the airframe and components are transferable. Buying a complete yet decertified airplane is 20% different from buying an 80% complete project if you don't have the build records.