P

PIN 37

Well Known Member
Well after many hundreds of hours working on the Tipup, it has defeated me, I give up. I have spent quite a few hundred dollars getting the WD-716 weldment modified and lots of hours fitting, but I cant get it right. It is now so far out of alignment it would have to be replaced. I had the c-702 skin and the f-771 skin almost aligned and made one more cut and weld to get it right on the pilot side and now it is just rubbish. I give up, dont know where I am going to go from here, I have been working steadily for 8 years but have now lost motivation, bummer:(:(:(
 
Sounds like it's time for a Coopers, Phil, or maybe something from the Barossa. After 8 years, I don't think you'll be giving it away anytime soon. We all have those days.
Cheers
Rob
 
Take a step back, work on something else, bum a ride, have a drink and then - finish the thing. Don't let the quest for perfection be the enemy of the "good enough'.
 
PIN 37 said:
Well after many hundreds of hours working on the Tipup, it has defeated me, I give up. I have spent quite a few hundred dollars getting the WD-716 weldment modified and lots of hours fitting, but I cant get it right. It is now so far out of alignment it would have to be replaced. I had the c-702 skin and the f-771 skin almost aligned and made one more cut and weld to get it right on the pilot side and now it is just rubbish. I give up, dont know where I am going to go from here, I have been working steadily for 8 years but have now lost motivation, bummer:(:(:(
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Phil
Give me a call, I have done a few tip ups and sliders and maybe able to help you with a couple of ideas. Pity your in SA and I'm in Vic.
Phone 0417 455 244
Mick
 
Relax and have a Bundaberg! I have a bottle on my bench right now.

I think that you are trying too hard.

The tipper is certainly a moving target. You need to roll with it in a Zen-like fashion!

Hang in there and don't let it throw ya!

;). CJ
 
Tip Up

Phil,

I feel your pain. I have built several tip ups here at RV Central, and never been really happy with how they turn out. My learning curve has been flat. I do know how to fix one though.
 
After reading so many horror stories about the tip up (which is what I want) my question is: Why has Vans not been able to make a tip up that fits?

Is the quality just that bad? All airframes should be the same right? So why doesn't the canopy fit?

I don't have my fuse kit yet, but I'm planning on the tip-up but I've heard nothing but horror stories about building it!!
 
s10sakota said:
Why has Vans not been able to make a tip up that fits?
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I think that is why the design is so different now on the RV-12 and RV-14.

The tip up canopy is by far the most frustrating experience of the build. Mine took about a year (off and on) and every time it sat a little bit different. Still have some "scoops" on the front. However, it is "good enough" and it will have to be what it is. I don't believe there is a "perfect" tip up.

As others have said - give it a break, then come back to it. Persistence here is what it takes.
 
A few...a very small few are lucky and somehow they manage to build a tipper without the scoops in the front.

The rest of us fight it as long as we can and then give up and cover up the problem with various techniques hidden by paint.

The bottom line is that the parts don't fit the 7's fuse and Van's either does not care or they are in denial about it....Its one of the few things that make me wish I had built a slider. (they have their own set of issues however)

Forget about trying to get the tipper perfect early in the process. This is false security as it will move all over the place again after you fasten the bubble to it and finish the glass work.

Be careful to not catch the front of the canopy skin on the top front skin as this may cause injury or death to innocent bystanders.....
 
Brantel said:
A few...a very small few are lucky and somehow they manage to build a tipper without the scoops in the front.

The rest of us fight it as long as we can and then give up and cover up the problem with various techniques hidden by paint.
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Hey, speak for yourself :). Mine is perfect, as far as I can tell :). It is just another art project. So much fun that I'm building another (different) one.
 
scard said:
Hey, speak for yourself :). Mine is perfect, as far as I can tell :). It is just another art project. So much fun that I'm building another (different) one.
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Same here, no scoops or filler here, its not perfect but pretty darn good, guess I was just lucky :D

(I did have to weld the hinge holes closed twice to get it "perfect" though)
 
Let's don't paint with such a broad brush!

There are many, many tip-up canopies out there that fit great.
As a matter of fact, until the early to mid '90s, all RV-6s were tip-ups.

I don't think the tip-up is any more difficult to build than the slider, just different.
 
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s10sakota said:
After reading so many horror stories about the tip up (which is what I want) my question is: Why has Vans not been able to make a tip up that fits?

Is the quality just that bad? All airframes should be the same right? So why doesn't the canopy fit?

I don't have my fuse kit yet, but I'm planning on the tip-up but I've heard nothing but horror stories about building it!!
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The tip-up on my 1999 (no pre-punch) RV-6 is absolutely perfect!

At least it looks perfect to me as I sit in the plane while it takes me to interesting places all over this part of the country. From my vantage point in the left seat no flaws are visible, just the fantastic unobstructed view out the big glass bubble. After a flight like that....I don't notice any imperfections in the way the canopy fits as I tuck the neat little plane back into its hangar..... :)
 
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Mel said:
There are many, many tip-up canopies out there that fit great.
As a matter of fact, until the early to mid '90s, all RV-6s were tip-ups.

I don't think the tip-up is any more difficult to build than the slider, just different.
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That's just it, the parts that were designed to fit the 6 don't fit the 7/9....or most of them without much pain and agony. (yes there are rare exceptions) The curve of the ribs on that weldment just plain don't match the curve of the 7/9 front skin/subpanel once assembled.

All one has to do is walk the grounds at Osh or some other flyin with a bunch of RV's and it becomes clear that this is an area where the average builders struggle.
 
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Sam Buchanan said:
The tip-up on my 1999 (no pre-punch) RV-6 is absolutely perfect!

At least it looks perfect to me as I sit in the plane while it takes me to interesting places all over this part of the country. From my vantage point in the left seat no flaws are visible, just the fantastic unobstructed view out the big glass bubble. After a flight like that....I don't notice any imperfections in the way the canopy fits as I tuck the neat little plane back into its hangar..... :)
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Thanks for keeping the end goal in the viewfinder Sam. Your absolutely correct. All of these so called problems are melted away once the wheels leave the ground!
 
Brantel said:
That's just it, the parts that were designed to fit the 6 don't fit the 7/9....or most of them without much pain and agony. (yes there are rare exceptions) The curve of the ribs on that weldment just plain don't match the curve of the 7/9 front skin/subpanel once assembled.
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So you are assuming that the -6 parts fit but the -7/9 parts don't?
Trust me, the -6 parts didn't fit right out of the box either.
As a matter of fact, at least 95% of the -7/9 parts fit MUCH better than any of the -6 parts.
Van's has gotten much better with parts over the years.
 
Brantel said:
The curve of the ribs on that weldment just plain don't match the curve of the 7/9 front skin/subpanel once assembled.
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I think it is not the frame. (2-7-16 edit - it IS the frame. Don't build the canopy frame until the 771 skin is riveted on. Just don't) The problem is how it is positioned to be drilled and riveted together. The instructions don't provide good technique, IMO. I had many days of just looking at it to try to see what to do next. I used straight edges to to align mine after doing it by the book (or so I thought). I put the center section of the frame in a hydraulic press and bent it until the curvature was correct, then it had wings. After a few days I just grabbed the ends and bent them . . wings gone. The stiffeners stabilized the shape. These are just the forward frame issues, then there are the side rails . . . I can not claim success yet, so for now this is just wishful thinking that I did an adequate job and it will work in the end.

I am waiting until the forward fuse skin is riveted to do the final fitting with side skirts and canopy. When that is done, then, maybe, I can draw conclusions and provide information that may be helpful to others, but until then it is just speculation. I have certainly done it every wrong way and had every known issue so far, and think I know how to overcome all of them.

Since quite some time has passed since my last canopy frame work sessions, the whole process feels like a good learning experience to me now, but it did certainly not feel that way at the time.

Mel, I have looked and many canopies at OSH and SnF, and have not seen one yet that I would say "fit great" , but I have not seen as many as you guys either. But -- if just one can be fitted that way, then they all can, with proper understanding, instructions, and coaching.
 
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Mel said:
So you are assuming that the -6 parts fit but the -7/9 parts don't?
Trust me, the -6 parts didn't fit right out of the box either.
As a matter of fact, at least 95% of the -7/9 parts fit MUCH better than any of the -6 parts.
Van's has gotten much better with parts over the years.
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I would agree with you on most of the 7/9 parts, but not the canopy frame weldment/ribs (which are what we are discussing by the way). It looks to me like they just used the 6 tooling to make these frames for the 7/9. The ribs do not fit the curvature of the 7/9 properly. It is darn near impossible to reshape those heavy gauge U-shaped ribs without much effort.

Anyway, I don't give a rip since my canopy was done many moons ago. The main goal is revealed in Sam's post and that is where I am today. I am out of this discussion.
 
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Tip-up all the way

I built my Tip-Up and just helped a friend build a slider. Without a doubt I would build the Tip-Up again. Not that the slider is harder but it has its demons.

I posted several posts during my Tip-Up build that might be helpful to others struggling with the Tip-up demons. Do a search by Pmerems and key words Tip-Up or shims.

Don't expect the parts to fit exactly. You will need to shim (possibly tapered shims) as required. Once the canopy plexiglas is mounted the frame will move and it will not fit the same. Additionally once the gas springs are installed the canopy will fit a little differently.

In the end (in my opinion) the magnificent unobstructed view you get from the Tip-Up canopy is worth the pain and frustration getting it built.
 
Take a break from the build. Come back refreshed. I keep telling myself that I am not building a show plane, that is a hard thing to tell yourself. So my new saying is, it is going to be a 10 Foot show plane. Looks good from 10 Feet away!

Also, what year did you buy the finish kit. I bought mine this year and the slider frame was a bolt up match. No tweeking required! might look at a newer frame?
 
I've been working on my canopy since June. I feel your pain. The motivation just isn't there, I just want to fly it.

Hang in there, you're not the first.
 
Yep. Been there. Know just how you feel. Just look at this piece I wrote a few years ago, back when i called my plane "The Elephant Man."

Over time, I got things looking better after the fact. I built up an area that had scoops... I fiberglassed the side skirts to look better than they did. There's not much I can do about the the gaping hole -- if someone inconsistent hole -- where the canopy skin meets the forward skin...but that's what I needed to keep the skin from dinging when I lifted it (looking back, I'd have put more of a shim on the canopy skin).

I completely understand your disappointment but all is not lost. There's a lot you can do in the rest of the build process for the tip-up. It's not all about the frame.

When you're finally flying, you're not going to care anyway even if it does end up looking like the The Elephant Man (which it won't). It's going to be THAT good for you. You can do this. One step, then another step.
 
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I more or less made peace with the fact that my canopy puffs out a little bit on each side in the usual places, and I'm OK with it never being a showplane.

Maybe at some point I'll either rework the canopy or build up the front deck to match the bulges.

My plane's getting a matte black paint job in that area anyway, along with the cowl, spinner and fairings. I think I'm going to have the first rat-rod RV, unless someone already beat me to it.
 
I feel your pain, when I was working on the tip up I had read that the side skirts rest on the fuselage skins. Don't tell me where I read that so I worked diligently on it, I replaced f702 skin 4 times due to things moving, after hours days and months I finally installed the canopy stops which helped with the alignment but had to make my own side I believe it is 716 side skins to get the fit I wanted. I made the canopy alignment guides that I saw.
Yes now the tip up canopy side skins butt the fuselage skins and my tip up is tight along the sides with no air gaps I installed a stop bolt that allows the canopy to come down only so far and meet the side skins.
I had to install .025 spacers strips under the F702 aft skin to make the top cowling align with the canopy frame.
Frustrations, yes, was it worth it. Yes. Some folks keep logs of how much time they spent building... I have detailed building log but have never added up the time.
Now I am flying and doing more mods.... Hopefully this week will be the end of the mods for this month :)

Keep at it... I have flown a lot of different planes and can not tell you how fantastic it is to fly something you built with your own hands,

Smilin' Jack
 
Well I have to say I have made a decision about what to do with the tipup. On the weekend the aircraft is being moved to the airport where it will live and there is a bussiness there that helps builders, and that includes me. Lyndon, from Custom Aero (at YGWA for our Australian friends) is going to tackle the task of making it all good. So hopefully we will be flying in the not too distant future. I feel better now.:)
 
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