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yakdriver

Well Known Member
I would like to know if DAR fees are comparable thruout the country or is there a big difference in fees. One of the DARs in the area charges $800 plus $40 hour plus expenses travel fee. Don
 
Don,
DAR fees are set by the individual DAR and are quite different in different parts of the country. My basic fee is $400 for fixed gear, non-pressurized single engine recip, plus travel expenses.
 
yakdriver said:
I would like to know if DAR fees are comparable thruout the country or is there a big difference in fees. One of the DARs in the area charges $800 plus $40 hour plus expenses travel fee. Don
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Huge difference. My DAR does the inspection for free if done locally although he does charge for costs if he has to travel. Others told me to just give him a ham and a six-pack if I wanted to. A few days after the inspection, I mailed him $300 just because I felt sort of....well, you know. After all, he did spend almost 3 hours with me that day, even finishing up paperwork I neglected to complete. Later, he called and said "Rick, that really was not necessary.....you are going to give me ideas!"
 
The MKE FSDO does it for free. Your local FSDO should be the same, if available. The FSDO can also file for your Repairmans Cert, where a DAR can not.

Roberta
 
In the Atlanta area, the two prices I got were $500 and $650. Went with the $500 guy... it's just all about paperwork around here. He could care less how the aircraft was built - it could have been held together with speed tape and chewing gum and he wouldn't have noticed.

My buddy tried contacting the ATL FSDO. They initially said they'd do it for free then their management shot that idea down. Said they had more important things to do, or something like that.

You are your own best inspector. Also get a bunch of experienced guys (A&Ps, IAs, RVers, etc) to go over the plane with you because a fresh set of eyes can spot things you might have neglected.
 
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Hey Don, the DAR we used for our Rans charged $350 or $400(I don't recall exactly). He is south for the winter, but should be back by April. If you need his name let me know, I think he travels.
 
The last time I checked, there were at least two guys just NW of Atlanta who were charging $300 and $350, respectively.

If anyone needs a contact information for them, drop me a note off-line.
 
Here in central Iowa, our DAR charges a flat fee of $400 for a pretty large radius around the Des Moines area. Outside of that, he charges more for travelling. I think that is pretty reasonable. What I really like about he conducts the DAR business is that he likes to get with builders early on in the process. You pay him about $200 and he will come back as needed during the building. He likes this because he can help keep builders from making major mistakes along the way. He is like a really really good tech counselor who can, actually, make you change or fix something-- unlike tech counselors who can offer suggestions. At the end of the process, the final inspection is a no brainer, all of the paperwork is in order and there are no surprises. Makes sense to me.
 
Thanks for the input. Our FISDO doesn't usually do inspections but they have a couple of new guys that need to get the practice so I will get mine done for free. They come by about once a month and check on progress so it should go smooth. The DAR in Boise is the only game around. He retired from the FAA and when he became a DAR the FISDO refused to do any inspections as they were just too busy. Don
 
Funny that you started this thread this evening! My wife and I just got home from dinner with my folks, and we were discussing this very topic!!

:D
 
busy ?

"FISDO refused to do any inspections as they were just too busy" ... not to sound too disparaging, but since this is part of their job according to the charter of the FAA, why is this answer even allowed.

Would be nice if I was able to say that I can't do part of my job because i was too busy.
 
The FSDOs have been slowly getting out of the airworthiness inspection business for several years. Eventually all airworthiness will be issued by DARs.
 
N520TX said:
"FISDO refused to do any inspections as they were just too busy" ... not to sound too disparaging, but since this is part of their job according to the charter of the FAA, why is this answer even allowed.

Would be nice if I was able to say that I can't do part of my job because i was too busy.
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Around here, if you insist you want them to do the inspect, they will put you on the list. The kicker is: This list will only be looked at when all other duties are complete, SO get ready for a many months or longer wait.
 
oh i dont think i would insist.

then they will turn it into a circus for you. may have you jumping through all kinds of hoops. i want them to do it, but if they are too busy ;) then i'll get someone else. but i will say i wish them to be experineced other than the DAR alone.
 
EAA DAR's

The EAA has a list of DAR's that are "volunteer" DAR's. http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/help/ab_dar.asp? is the site though you will need to log into the EAA site to get to it (member's only stuff). Anyway, I went this route and found a DAR for whom I only needed to pay travel expenses. It seems that thes fellows recieve some training from the EAA and in return they do inspections for the next couple of years for travel $. After that they can charge the larger fees. My guy was excellent and a homebuilder himself.
 
AB-DAR's

My inspection was Friday, so I kinda remember the details. Our AB-DAR gave me a bill for $39.77 for travel. Before the inspection, I always wondered how anyone could justify charging $500 or so, but I don't now. He worked for almost 5 1/2 hours and was very thorough. He caught a couple of small things that we fixed on the spot, the most important being a pinhole through the firewall that I hadn't sealed. Beyond that, it was pretty clean. He even did a complete runup (actually me at the controls) and checked all the systems including the pax side brakes.

After the inspection, it was too late to get the plane back together for flight and I was too worn out anyway. VERY stressful from my perspective. It would have been a perfect day to fly. Good weather should be here in a few days anyway.

For anyone in central/southern Indiana, I recommend our AB-DAR, Tony Cecere.

BTW, he didn't have any problem with any of the newer "stuff" like LED position lights and said I can swap to a right side E-Mag without adding to my Phase One time. I held off on putting it on to get some comparison numbers.

Bob Kelly, N908BL
 
RV6ARoger said:
... What I really like about he conducts the DAR business is that he likes to get with builders early on in the process. You pay him about $200 and he will come back as needed during the building. He likes this because he can help keep builders from making major mistakes along the way. ... At the end of the process, the final inspection is a no brainer, all of the paperwork is in order and there are no surprises. Makes sense to me.
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This IS the right way to do this! Most of you have probably heard of the 1-10-100 rule. If you catch a problem component before it is used it costs you $X to fix. If that component makes it into a subassembly, it will cost you $10X to fix. If that subassembly makes it into a finished product it will cost you $100X to fix it!

I guess most try to do this by having other builders and tech counselors review their work as they go. However, it sure makes since to have the one that will be signing on the bottom line involved earlier in the process.
 
Mel said:
The FSDOs have been slowly getting out of the airworthiness inspection business for several years. Eventually all airworthiness will be issued by DARs.
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I have been encouraging a highly qualified friend for some time to pursue the DAR designation. He never thought about it before because until he met me, he held a vague and dim view of experimental airplanes. Today, he knows at least three people who are building high quality kit planes and has become a believer. I don't know what is involved but with his credentials, (a DER and retired Chief flight test engineer at MAC) I would think it is just a matter of paperwork. Well today, he finally called the STL FSDO with an inquiry and was told that two weeks ago a memo from the FAA was issued to all FSDO's directing them to "beat the bushes" seeking qualified people to become DAR's.
 
This morning I spoke to my FAA rep about doing my inspection. He has no problem doing them but stated that the FAA is going to start pushing these "free" inspections to DAR's.

He termed it "user fees" and mentioned that other FAA services will soon be turned over to DAR's as well. One such thing, ferry permits will soon be on a "user fee" basis, which you will have to go to a DAR for.

Good if you are a DAR (Sorry Mel) but not so good if you are trying to build on a budget and struggle with a $400 inspection fee, $2,000 insurance, $200 monthly hanger fees, early aircraft property tax, etc.

Sounds like it is time to contact the EAA and AOPA and see what they have to say.
 
Wow!

yakdriver said:
I would like to know if DAR fees are comparable thruout the country or is there a big difference in fees. One of the DARs in the area charges $800 plus $40 hour plus expenses travel fee. Don
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I'm a little late to this thread, but I just got a quote of $800 plus $100/hour for any additional duties beyond the basic inspection. Wow!

Of course, the FSDO hasn't returned my call...

-Geoff
 
The DAR push from the FAA came many years before the recent "user fee" scandal. When I became a DAR in 1999 we were told at that time that all inspections will eventually be the responsibility of DARs. The FAA budget gets cut back more every year and their duties just keep expanding. They don't have the time or expertise.
DAR duties aren't just inspections. We have annual recurrent training and paperwork you wouldn't believe. All at our own expense. I promise you we aren't getting rich off you guys.

Geoff,
You don't say what part of the country you are from but if you are in the southern part of the states, give me a call. Maybe we can work something out. I do travel a lot. 972-784-7544
 
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Mel said:
The DAR push from the FAA came many years before the recent "user fee" scandal. When I became a DAR in 1999 we were told at that time that all inspections will eventually be the responsibility of DARs. The FAA budget gets cut back more every year and their duties just keep expanding. They don't have the time or expertise.
DAR duties aren't just inspections. We have annual recurrent training and paperwork you wouldn't believe. All at our own expense. I promise you we aren't getting rich off you guys.

Geoff,
You don't say what part of the country you are from but if you are in the southern part of the states, give me a call. Maybe we can work something out. I do travel a lot. 972-784-7544
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Unfortunately, I'm in San Francisco -- where everything is more expensive.

I don't mind paying for a service (especially if the FSDO doesn't call me back), but that price seemed a little high when compared with what I've read here on this forum. To be fair, that DAR told me right off the bat that I should call the FSDO because they'd do it for free.

I have some calls in to a few other DARs to compare prices and availability, so we'll see what happens.

Are you guys restricted by grographical area? For example, if I find a DAR in the LAX area who happens to be visiting some relatives in the SFO area and he agrees to stop by my airport to do the inspection, is that approved?

Thanks.
-Geoff
 
Geoff, Technically we have a "home" area. We can go outside that area with the permission of the local FSDO. I have been doing this for 8 years and have been refused only once. The San Antonio office refused me once because they said they had a DAR that need the work. I have no problem with this. Most times it's just a formality. Good luck.
 
I usually don't post on here but this one is of interest to me. Just think how many airplanes a DAR would have to license at 400.00 per aircraft to make a decent living in 2007. He'd have to do 100 planes to make 40 grand a year. I bet Mel doesn't even do that many.This comes with a huge responsibility and lots of expensive training and recurrent seminars and endless paperwork that most of you never see. When you spend 50 grand to build an aircraft, you should consider that an airworthiness certificate is a part of the expense unless you can somehow get the FSDO or MIDO to come look at the plane for free. The 400 dollar charge that seems to be about average or somewhat low sounds like a bargain to me. The aircraft inspection and the documents you recieve are only a small part of the hours of time it takes to prepare the paperwork that a DAR has to do to issue these certificates. Shopping around for a DAR is always an option as is a phone call to the FSDO or MIDO for the possibility of a free inspection. I'm currently building a -9 and will gladly pay a DAR to license it for me when I'm done.
 
EAA Link

http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/help/ab_dar.asp?

For those of you who are EAA members the link above will take you to their site that explains how a person becomes a DAR and the connection the EAA has with this program. I used it. The DAR's going through the EAA program do the inspections for a year for "travel fees" but no other charge. This is about as inexpensive as it gets (with the few exceptions mentioned above where there is no charge). Mel and other DARs are saints IMO and a fee of $300 to $500 is very reasonable. Mike Bush has a good article in the Cessna Pilots Assn. Magazine that talks about liability issues with IA's and A&P's. I am sure DAR's fall under the same dark litigious cloud. As I said they are saints. Don't cheap out. "The agony of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of cheap price has worn off." ( My favorite quote). :)
 
Mel said:
The San Antonio office refused me once because they said they had a DAR that need the work. I have no problem with this. Most times it's just a formality. Good luck.
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The FAA fsdo's are fiefdoms. I believe that a person working for the gov't referring work to specific individuals is illegal. I know a DAR in TX who inspects warbirds all over the country and has run into this a few times, and after some "discussion" with the fsdo managers I don't think he's ever not been able to conduct an inspection outside of district.
 
Oakland FSDO sent two fellows out to inspect my RV. They worked with me to give the test area I wanted, looked the plane over real good (a couple of hours), gave me a 25 hr phase I and signed the plane off for acro.

Total cost $0. Great to deal with as well.
 
No to government

One of my transition trainees called me a couple of days ago from Columbia, S.C. looking for a DAR because the FSDO guy came out and told him that he needed an A@P to sign off a condition inspection before he could issue a certificate! What a cop-out. I'd suggest that we keep our DAR's and keep government out of the whole scenario as much as we can. There's an old saying that goes... "Government does nothing well". Truer words were never spake/spoken....

Pierre
 
Mel said:
The DAR push from the FAA came many years before the recent "user fee" scandal. When I became a DAR in 1999 we were told at that time that all inspections will eventually be the responsibility of DARs. The FAA budget gets cut back more every year and their duties just keep expanding. They don't have the time or expertise.
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Excuse this off topic post, but I just wanted to point out that the FAA budget has not been getting cut back "every year." In fact the FAA budget doubled in size during the period of 1995 to 2005. Only in the last couple years has the FAA budget growth slowed (but it is increasing again). Some comparative sources:

http://web.nbaa.org/public/govt/testimony/20050504.php
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aep/aatf/media/bib2001.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/budgets_brief/media/bib2007.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/budgets_brief/media/bib2008.pdf
 
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