N

N787R

Active Member
I am thinking of installing both D180 & Enigma in my 7.
Is this crazy or does make sense?
I am doing it for back up for both night and IFR flights.
I am also doing it in case I have to send one of them for repair, I can still fly with the other one.
I was first thinking of installing two of the the same brand and model. But I decided against that.

Ben
 
Huh ?

I'm confused, and I don't mean this to sound rude, but why would you spend $3200 for a D-180, when you could spend $1995 and have a second Enigma, which does 5 times what a D-180 can do?
 
Enigma should be fine...

If you want- get another screen, dual RDAC (engine monitor) setup for complete backup.

The Enigma is about $3200 without probes- AHRS, COMPASS, RDAC (engine monitor black box) and main unit.

The Enigma does a great job on ease of installation and engine monitoring. You can add a battery backup to the Enigma as well in case all the lights go out.

The Enigma aslo has a built in WAAS GPS, 3d TERRAIN, HITS, and a lot of other fun stuff Dynon doesn't have. You can drive an AP through the GPS, you can talk to certain COMs and NAV/COMS

Combine the Enigma with a WAAS cert IFR GPS, Apollo SL-30, and a few backup round gauges and it's a complete package.

If you got some time (not finished building) Look to the Voyager or Odyssey. Bigger screen sizes, some other bells and whistles.

You can see my slideshow post for more screen shots of the Enigma on the first flight after installation. I'm still getting all the sensors installed (due to my planes plumbing, not Enigma) and hooking the bells and whistles.

The screen is marginally smaller than the Dynon, but everything is very clear and all the information is present. The REALLY REALLY GREAT thing about the Enigma- you have 9 screens you can format for exactly what you want to see. The main PFD can be focused on flight instruments, and the engine section can be HI EGT or scrolling EGT/CHT (shows 1-4 readings).

Another screen can be LOADED with Engine displays showing each EGT/CHT and a lot more detailed info not necessary for the PFD.

I was playing around and made a different PFD screen moving the Engine data to a right column so the Horizon can use the full height of the screen. It took me a couple of hours of copying and pasting in the simulator and I loaded it up and viola! Very Cool.

The moving maps have all the data you need, but they are working towards improving the interface. They are really doing a fine job of adding functionality very quickly and the moving maps WORKS just fine. I think it can and will get better, but I never intended on the Enigma being my ONLY source of GPS nav data (plus my paper maps). I have a Garmin 196 (B&W) which is nice to have another screen and I can leave it on the map screen, or dial in airport info freq's while the PFD is on the Enigma.

A 396/496 and Engima would be perfect! Imagine flying along and the Engima is showing 3d terrain on the Horizon with terrain awareness look ahead. The Garmin 396/496 is showing updated weather and TAF/METAR info. You can either one drive a AP, and both serve as a backup to each other. Both have independent batteries.

Most folks would agree they would have a another GPS in addition to the glass panel. It would be no difference with the Enigma.

Regards,
 
Enigma and D180

Thanks for all the good info on Enigma.
As my original post mentioned, I like Enigma and would like to install.
However I need to have a backup.
The reason I dont like to put two Enigmas is that it is possible they could both fail at the same time. Right?
That is why I thought Enigma and D180 combo would be good.

Ben
 
Maxi singles are sweet little instruments! If I wasn't going to do an Enigma, I'd do a panel of Maxi Singles. Great backups!:cool:
 
Backups

It's extremely unlikely that both Enigmas would fail at the same time. The only thing they would share in common is the a/c power source. The Enigma is self-contained, so if you put a GPS antenna on each, and T-off the pitot/static lines into both, you'd have total redundancy. The only thing is the primary would have the artificial horizon and compass inputs, although you might be able to T those to both as well, I'm not sure. If you planned to have separate engine probes for each instrument, it wouldn't make a difference if it were a second Enigma or a Dynon. The advantages to the Enigma as a 2nd screen, besides the cost savings ($1995 vs. $3200) are huge, and in my opinion would more than outweigh any slight chance of a dual in-flight failure. The other consideration is learning two separate and VERY different systems, versus having two identical panels that perform the same. I'd rather only learn one new technology personally.

Just my 4 cents worth.
 
One thing to note is that backup engine monitoring requires multiple probes for many sensors. Anything resistive (oil temp, fuel, etc) can't be shared between two monitors, no matter what brands they are, since the engine monitor powers the sensor.

If you're looking at Dynon for backup, you'll probably only want a D100 from us. Even in the clouds, most people can get down safely without an engine monitor, but a second ADAHRS can be a lifesaver. The D100 is $2400 and includes the full ADAHRS at that price, unlike the $1995 that keeps getting quoted for the MGL equipment. It seems clear from the original post that Ben was looking for backup attitude.

Of course, another option is to get the D180 from Dynon and use it primarily as an engine monitor, and the MGL as your PFD without any engine monitoring. You could then switch the D180 to split mode if anything was to happen to the MGL.

You have a lot of options, and no, you are not crazy for wanting a full, second attitude instrument in your plane when you fly IFR. Dynon recommends a backup from a reliable source any time IFR is expected.

Since you also indicate that you really want to fly IFR with your equipment, you should also talk to each manufacturer you are considering and see if they are OK with you using their equipment for known IFR flight. Many manufacturers specifically state that their instruments should not be used for IFR.
 
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I'd like to second Dynonsupport's comment if I may. (BTW, does "Dynonsupport" have a name ?").
Backups for critical components are never a bad idea. Boeing and Airbus does it, you should too. The D100 is a nice choice if you need something small and that can give you primary flight information as well and yes, it is cheaper than a full house Enigma system.
If you are mainly concerned about attitude, you could consider one of our AV-1 or AV-2 units together with an SP-4 - that should be less than $1000 in the U.S.
Yes, DynonSupport is correct, most engine probes cannot be shared between two monitors, even if from the same company. Items that can sometimes shared are thermocouple probes (EGT,CHT) if both monitors have high impedance inputs, rev counter pickups, fuel flow senders. Items that cannot be shared are resistive oil/fuel pressure senders and resistive temperature senders like most oil and water temp senders (NTC, PTC types). You could consider duplicating the senders that cannot be shared - then you would have true and full redundancy on those.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

dynonsupport said:
One thing to note is that backup engine monitoring requires multiple probes for many sensors. Anything resistive (oil temp, fuel, etc) can't be shared between two monitors, no matter what brands they are, since the engine monitor powers the sensor.

If you're looking at Dynon for backup, you'll probably only want a D100 from us. Even in the clouds, most people can get down safely without an engine monitor, but a second ADAHRS can be a lifesaver. The D100 is $2400 and includes the full ADAHRS at that price, unlike the $1995 that keeps getting quoted for the MGL equipment. It seems clear from the original post that Ben was looking for backup attitude.

Of course, another option is to get the D180 from Dynon and use it primarily as an engine monitor, and the MGL as your PFD without any engine monitoring. You could then switch the D180 to split mode if anything was to happen to the MGL.

You have a lot of options, and no, you are not crazy for wanting a full, second attitude instrument in your plane when you fly IFR. Dynon recommends a backup from a reliable source any time IFR is expected.

Since you also indicate that you really want to fly IFR with your equipment, you should also talk to each manufacturer you are considering and see if they are OK with you using their equipment for known IFR flight. Many manufacturers specifically state that their instruments should not be used for IFR.
Click to expand...
 
FYI- Enigma prices...

From
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Enigma/Order/order.html

The Enigma alone-
no compass, no AHRS, no EIS (RDACX), no probes
is $1995

The Enigma with;
RDACX) EIS black box, 4 EGT probes, 4 CHT probes, fuel flow, Oil temp
$2619

The Enigma with;
compass & AHRS; no EIS no probes
$3055

Enigma with;
EIS (RDAC X) all sensors above, compass, AHRS
$3629 (under $3200 without probes)

The Enigma also includes at the base price a WAAS enabled built-in GPS. There is a price point where the Dynon D100 is cheaper than the Enigma for a PFD w/ AHRS. The Enigma is nice because you can add functionality to the system without removing the box. Start with PFD w/ AHRS add EIS later- or vice versa.

The D100/D180 has a larger width to the screen as well, but I like the keypad on the Enigma versus the multi-function buttons on the Dynon. I like the knobs on the GRT very much.
 
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Interesting Notes.....

I am interested in purchasing an efis. There are many to chose from and it seems that they all have problems from what I have been reading.

I am simply L@@King for the primary instruments w ahars and HSI. I already have a full Garmin stack along with the MVP-50 engine monitor.

So what to do....?
 
Sticky1 said:
I am interested in purchasing an efis. There are many to chose from and it seems that they all have problems from what I have been reading.

I am simply L@@King for the primary instruments w ahars and HSI. I already have a full Garmin stack along with the MVP-50 engine monitor.

So what to do....?
Click to expand...

One of the many things I like about the GRT options are that at the heart, they are really an AHRS and display system. Very reliable, and they interface extremely well with outside IFR navigation devices (ala GNS 430, etc). No problems in two years and 600 hours of heavy RVating....

Paul
 
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