bjb3013

Well Known Member
I need cylinder work on my Lyc IO360 A1A. I have 100 hrs and the compression is good but the rings never seated and I have high oil burn.
What should it cost to clean, checkout , deglaze and get new rings?
What is the good and bad of going to 10-1 pistons while I have it apart.
Any shop preferences ?
The nearest recommended shop is R.A. Nolan in Moringsport, La. Anyone have any experience with them?

What the best break in voodoo ? Oil ?

Thanks
BB
 
compression

seems the increased compression causes some issues with certain props. i would check into that before the change. then there is the issues of nothing but 100 LL for your plane tied to also EI concerns . but i woulld check further into that as well. good luck
 
10 to1

Hi BB,

Just did an extensive OH on mine and backed down from 10 to 1 to the stock 8.7 to 1 and cant tell any difference, Don?t up it, I?m going just as fast and not burning any more fuel, climb is still 25 to 2600fpm.

How much oil is it burning? Run Aero Shell 100 mineral oil for 50 hours at as high a power setting as you can safely. In my -4 I could do about 2450 and 24 to 25 inches depending on the weather (bumps). After 50 hours I went to Aero Shell 15-50 semi synthetic and it has been steadily consuming a quart every 6 to 8 hours. Now I cruse at 23? and 2380 to 2400 rpm at 9.2 gph, and have about 200 hours on it.

My Lycoming buddy who helped me out with this project tells me this level of oil consumption is normal and expected and that the engines that are going 20+ hours on a quart are to tight, this was his statement to me before we even started the build, he was looking for a quart in every 5 to 10 hours.

Mine is an A1A IO-360 200HP using new Lycoming angle valve cylinder kits.
 
BB,

What is your current oil consumption and what type of cylinders do you have?

I also have an IO-360A1A and have been using a quart every 3.5 to 4 hours. I was not happy with this and thought I had glazed my chrome cylinders. I disassembled and had the cylinders re-honed and new rings fit. After re-assembly I was disappointed to find my oil usage about the same. I ran the dog-snot out of it from the git-go and it didn't make a bit of difference. :mad:

My current plan is to live with the oil consumption and at some point in the distant future, I will buy factory new cylinders and hope that fixes the problem. (I had to carry about 8 qts of oil with me when I flew to Oshkosh, I hate that)

Karl
 
Thanks all
I have 3 rebuilt nitrids and 1 chrome. I am using 1 Qt an hour and that is alot because I have no leaks. Its been consistant fror alot of hours now. All plugs are black and none are grey like they are supposed to be. I can not narrow down any cylinder as being worse than the others. I am thinking about exchanging the chrome for more $ and getting a nitride. I dont know why but I have a feeling that the chrome cyl is a major part of the problem.
I have tried all of the tricks and use marvel Mystry oil to no avail.

Thanks.
BB
 
support your local refinery

a qt an hour. not good. You didn't mention what type of chrome cylinder you have. Cermi-chrome, channel chrome or cerminil? We've had issues with all of them, but particularly the channel chrome cylinders. Seems the surface is too rough and literally eats the rings. It is not unheard of for an oil burner to show good compressions as the oil will 'block' the air and show a decent reading.

I have also "heard" that the plasma on the rings used in cerminil cylinders can crack leading to high oil consumption, stuck rings or worse and that the rings need to be supported when installing them on the pistons. Haven't personally seen this, only heard about it.

Allen
 
I also think the chrome cylinder may be a big part of your problem but that a LOT of oil. :eek: I can't imagine where it might be going. Has anyone commented on your plane smoking? Have you done a compression test recently? What are the compressions?

Karl
 
Several years back, I overhauled my 0-320 and had the cylinders channel chromed. Unfortunately, I didn't do a good job of breaking in the engine, at least cylinder wise, and the cylinders got glazed. As with you, oil consumption was bad, but not as bad as what you are seeing. Anyway, here's the list of things I did in order to finally get everything working normally, again.
An old timer engine rebuilder on my field suggested that the following procedure sometimes will scrape off the glazing...assumes a CS prop...climb to altitude...shut off engine, but keep prop turning in a slight dive...use the prop control to cycle the prop from coarse to fine pitch several times...turn on mags! and land. The pressure from the prop running the engine causes the rings to scrape with different pressures/angles on the cylinder walls and could possibly correct some of the problem. Note: I actually tried this and it did get better oil use, but I ended up working on the cylinders anyway.
I removed the cylinders to get them rehoned. This basically recreates the cross hatching on the cylinder walls that were there when it was new. (Actually, chrome cylinders may not come with cross hatching, since they electrically charge the cylinder during the plating process to make cracks in the chrome so that they can hold oil for lubrication...some one else can probably provide more accurate information on this than me.) Anyway, I just took my cylinders to a local engine shop (Auto/truck shop, not aircraft) and asked them to hone the cylinders. They just took the appropriate size hone (Which looks like a big bottle brush) and ran it in and out of the cylinder a few times. You could do this your self if you buy the appropriate hone, but it only cost $45 for them to do all the cylinders, while I waited.
Order the correct rings...make sure you have the correct type for chrome cylinders...rings for chromed cylinders are steel while rings for steel cylinders are chromed. Get a gasket set for each cylinder and reassemble.
Break in is really important for chrome cylinders. You must watch the temps and not over heat them, but you can't taxi around before the first takeoff, either. I pushed the plane to the runway, did a quick run up to verify oil pressure and took off using high power settings for the first few hours. If you can just fly around for a couple of hours at 75% for the first flight, that would be great. Lower altitude is better for higher manifold pressure.
ECI has a nice break in guide on their web site.
Chrome cylinders take longer to break in. Some folks say it may take up to 50 hours.
At any rate, I did the above and my oil consumption went way down and settled to about one quart per 10-12 hours, which is good for chrome cylinders.
I'm sure there will be comments on parts of the above, which is fine, but that's how I did it and it worked out for me.
 
Need a cylinder or four?

BB,

I have four Lycoming angle valve cylinders, Nitride on the inside and alodined? (Not painted but gold) on the out side. These are complete with 10 to 1 pistons, rings, valves and springs just as we removed them from my engine. They have 800 hours sense they where installed and I have no prior history but I think they where used and overhauled at that time.

The engine was running great at time of teardown and consuming a quart in 5 hours, reason for tear down was a crack in the crank case. I had the funds and just could not reinstall the old cylinders so the OH got out of hand and I have a mostly new engine. My Lycoming buddy looked at them and thought there was no reason not to hone them and install new rings and go but I had to have the new ones.

If you or any one else wants these, one or more there hear, I don?t know there value but I will let them go cheap, make offer, you pay shipping also.
 
BB,
How high are you keeping your oil level? When I keep mine at 8 qts. it blows the 1st qt. out the breather in about 2 hours. I now keep mine at 6.5 to 5.5 and it has helped a lot. I do have an air/oil seperator but it does not work well for that 1st qt. I had a car do the same thing and as long as I ran it 1 qt. low it did not use any oil.

Hope this helps.