Michael Burbidge

Well Known Member
I'm fabricating the horizontal spar attach angle. I don't have a band saw yet and am wondering what is the best tool for cutting the aluminum angle. I tried using a hacksaw today and struggled with it. I had to order another piece of aluminum angle.
 
A cheap air die grinder with a 3" cut off wheel, will do a good job.

P.S. -- with eye protection!

L.Adamson
 
Hacksaw

Most hacksaws are pieces of junk. Get a good one. The best ones have the design of the old "buck saw". The blade is put into stretch by way of a pivot design. The tightening screw will be on the top rear with a rod running above the strongback to the forward piece that has a pivot that pulls on the blade. One with the tightening screw on the bottom rear is no good.

Hope my explanation is clear enough to know what I'm talking about when you see one in the store or catalog.

If I was computer literate, I could research one and post a link to show what I'm talking about.

With one of the good ones, you can cut a straight line. (Almost!):D

Hope this helps.
 
I'm fabricating the horizontal spar attach angle. I don't have a band saw yet and am wondering what is the best tool for cutting the aluminum angle. I tried using a hacksaw today and struggled with it. I had to order another piece of aluminum angle.
Michael-
2 suggestions:

1. Buy the $99 variety bandsaw (if nothing better) at Home Depot or Lowes right away. WELL worth it over the cost of the build! Even more so on the fuselage where you have to fabricate a lot of parts yourself. I know some people use a hacksaw, but why????

2. Make the horizontal part of those angle brackets as wide as possible (so that they almost touch the skin/rib just outboard of the bracket). Doing so provides better edge distance when drilling the HS to the fuselage. Also, only trim down the sides and top of the vertical part after you have all the spar holes drilled through it. (This, in fact is almost always the way to go. Cut them initially larger than Van's suggests, then trim them down only once all holes have been drilled. This guarantees proper edge distance and minimizes the number of replacement pieces of angle that you have to purchase from Van's. Been there, done that!)

If it makes you feel any better, probably every single RV builder has made more than one set of those brackets!

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
High Tension Hacksaw

I think what Mannanj is describing is a high-tension hacksaw. I've had good luck with the Dewalt 3970 (about $20). Other brands may be available locally to compare. High tension models have a very strong frame and will hold the blade steady.

Good hunting,
 
The trick to using any non-precision tool like a die grinder or a hacksaw is to cut outside the line, then file to the line. Very, very few people are good enough to cut along the line without going over the line...
 
The trick to using any non-precision tool like a die grinder or a hacksaw is to cut outside the line, then file to the line. Very, very few people are good enough to cut along the line without going over the line...

And that's where the 1" belt sander comes in handy. And if the part is attached to something, I'd use a 90 degree die grinder with a 2" blue scotchbrite disk.

After 36 years in the sheetmetal business, use of "hand files", when I don't really have too, would probably do me in... :D

L.Adamson -- RV6A
 
hack saw only

I started with a band saw, never liked the way it cut. Either I have bad blades, a bad saw or both. In any case, I bought one of them nicer hacksaws from Home Depot. I always cut outside the line and use my "Vixen" file to remove a majority of the material that?s left. If yyou have one be careful because these vixen files can remove A LOT of material ? quickly. After that I use a "not-so-aggressive" to get right up to the line and finally I use the Scotch Brite wheel to finish the edges. There are some people that have gotten these little electric 3? bench top cut off wheels. I would like to have one but right now the hacksaw is doing just fine. Actually, as slow as you have to go with the band saw, the hack saw seems to work a little quicker ? IMO.
 
Saw options

I'm fabricating the horizontal spar attach angle. I don't have a band saw yet and am wondering what is the best tool for cutting the aluminum angle. I tried using a hacksaw today and struggled with it. I had to order another piece of aluminum angle.

Mike,

I did not have a band saw, but I have managed to find good substitutes. I used a scroll saw on the angles you need to cut. I cut clear of the lines and then sanded on a small Delta combo disc belt sander. Yesterday I was working on cutting the rudder stiffeners. I first tried to use snips but dorked the second stiffener I tried to cut. Ordered the new one today. I then remembered that someone used a tile saw they owned. I tried the one I have and it works like a charm. I like it so much I returned the 12in band saw I bought last month but did not set up as yet. I am doing the QB kit so I don't think I will need such a big band saw. If I end up needing one I will go with the bench size 9-10" model bandsaw. Good luck, do careful measures before you drill the hole through the upper HS angle.
 
First choice:
Harbor Freight, in store only, 6" chop saw, $30. Dan Checkoway has a picture of one on his web site.
Second choice:
Die grinder.
Third choice:
Band saw.
 
I concur...

with the previous statements.

If you get a bandsaw, go with the cheapest one but ensure you get additional blades for it. I bought a Ryobi and some small-toothed blades (for cutting hardwood). I've finally found a metal cutting blade but I don't know if it will work yet (1/2 too long)! Check the availability of blade sizes before purchasing a bandsaw! I use my bandsaw seldomly, but there are ocassions where it is the best tool for the job!

Invest in a couple of good hacksaws (one big and one small) and blades! (Again, small-toothed for cutting metal.) I just purchased a Hacksaw Jr. which uses six-inch blades and makes quick work of aluminum angle.

Likely, the most efficient tool I use for cutting pipe and angle (to length) is my miter saw with a metal cutting disk!
 
bandsaw

I used a "wood" blade, 1/4" * 6 TPI for many years on my bench top Delta Band saw, for aluminum cuts. Worked with great results, as well as cutting fast.

L.Adamson
 
6" HF Chop saw

For like $34 its an absolute awesome tool....Much faster than a band saw or die grinder.

Frank
 
Just to elaborate on and be more specific about my earlier post, I use a ~1/2" 18tpi Vermont American blade (purchased from Lowes) on my small $99 Delta bandsaw. If you have the saw set up properly (read instruction book)and use this blade, you should have no problem cutting absolutely straight cuts. I generally aim for the outside of my sharpie mark when using the saw, it's that accurate. And it cuts through even thick stock like butter.
 
Another vote for the cheapo HF cut-off / chop saw. Just be sure to pick up a pack of extra discs while you are there.

070307_001.jpg
 
There are some tricky cuts on angle and bar stock to make all throughout the project. A table vice is a must. I use a hacksaw or a jigsaw for angle or bar material, or for metals thicker than .040. You will develop your own way of cutting things eventually. You need some Boelube too. It will make the cuts go much quicker (and less barbaric :) ) Also, a chop saw is really handy to have to cut angle and bar stock off with a square cut. I also use a cutoff wheel. A bandsaw is great to have to finish up the parts before putting them on the scotchbrite wheel.

Regards,
 
Good way to go.

with the previous statements.

If you get a bandsaw, go with the cheapest one but ensure you get additional blades for it. I bought a Ryobi and some small-toothed blades (for cutting hardwood). I've finally found a metal cutting blade but I don't know if it will work yet (1/2 too long)! Check the availability of blade sizes before purchasing a bandsaw! I use my bandsaw seldomly, but there are ocassions where it is the best tool for the job!

Invest in a couple of good hacksaws (one big and one small) and blades! (Again, small-toothed for cutting metal.) I just purchased a Hacksaw Jr. which uses six-inch blades and makes quick work of aluminum angle.

Likely, the most efficient tool I use for cutting pipe and angle (to length) is my miter saw with a metal cutting disk!

This plus a belt sander works great! Cut inside the lines 1/8 to 1/16 and use a small belt sander to hit the line.
Just throw away the blade that comes wiith the Ryobi and get a good metal blade. Actually, get several metal blades! they seem to wear out fast!
 
I use a wood cutting blade and it works great. Fast and accurate. It never plugs up. You can not use it on steel. AL is soft. Metal cutting blades are slow and plug up.
 
Michael,
I'm going to take a little different tack here. I know you asked for alternatives to a hacksaw, but sometimes a hacksaw is the best tool for the job. Don't feel alone if you're having problems cutting with one; judging from my own shop visitors at least 9 out of 10 have trouble. There's both art and technique to using all the fundamental shop tools, but none of them come with instructions.

So, I'm gonna put on my TC hat for a moment and teach.

You need a stout vice on a rigid mount. A good bench vice should be early on your tool list, well before power tools; it does far more than just hold hacksaw work. A rigid mount might be the corner of a heavy bench which is bolted to the wall. Mount the subject material in the vice with the intended cut as close to the jaws as possible to eliminate flex and vibration.

I keep two hacksaw frames hanging near the vice, one loaded with an 18 TPI (tooth per inch) blade for aluminum and the other loaded with a 24 TPI for steel. Two frames is a mere convenience, but you should have both blades. Keep an eye on tooth set (look here if you don't know what "set" means: http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/glossary.html ). Tooth set is what widens the kerf and allows you to steer the cut. You can't steer if the kerf is the same width as the blade body. Loss of set due to side edge wear is why you replace a properly used hacksaw blade.

The primary error is using a two-handed grip, one on the handle and the other on the far end of the frame. You can neither steer accurately to follow the line (think roll axis) or control the angle at which the teeth meet the cutting surface (think pitch axis). In addition, the extended arm almost guarantees too much pressure on the backstroke, which dulls the blade. A two-handed grip should be reserved for hacking through heavy material (like a solid 1" bar) where accuracy doesn't matter and tooth pressure is spread out across many teeth.

Start the cut by guiding the blade with the thumbnail of your free hand and making a few very light strokes. When you get the cut going, rest that free hand on the bench to steady your upper body.

The root problem for most users is difficulty starting the forward stroke. A tooth catches on the leading edge of the material; the user response is to apply high forward pressure. When the tooth breaks loose, either by cutting or skipping, the resulting stroke is uncontrolled in both the roll axis and the ptich axis.

What you want is a pitch axis that varies throughout the stroke, because it creates a slightly rounded and angled cutting surface where the teeth make contact within the cut. Rock the pitch axis (increase AOA) as you stroke smoothly forward. The result is a cutting surface like you see in the circle below. There is no edge to catch (at "A"):


In addition, the non-flat cutting surface allows each individual tooth full contact, and chips don't raise the teeth off the cutting surface. The result is good cutting with less operator effort. The slight downward motion of your hand will provide all the necessary cutting pressure; don't force the cut. Low effort means the user can stroke smoothly and concentrate on steering the blade in the roll axis. The actual steering is much like the old tailwheel axiom; half as much twice as often.

That's the technique. Like everything else worthwhile, technique plus practice equals skill. You can cut a perfectly straight line with a hacksaw, and there's a lot of satisfaction in mastering one more fundamental shop skill.
 
I have a 12" chop saw (scary as s**t) that works well on the larger cuts. I wish I would have seen that nifty 6" one, though. It will take a combination of saws, files, and sanding belts/discs to get the job done accurately. Those 1" belt sanders with the 5" discs are invaluable for shaping. I use 60 grit and 80 grit with great results. I have used everything from bandsaws, chop saws, Stanley utility knives, belt/disc sanders, files, and Dremel drum sanders and metal cutters while building. All had their place and special uses for special needs. None were particularly expensive, either, and are still used on other projects. Rather than spending money on new parts and shipping, spend a few hundred dollars on these items and save a lot of grief and time. Cheap band saw, cheap chop saw, dremel set with drums and cutters, 1" belt sander with 5" disc, utility knife and blades, set of metal files, and a good tubing cutter. These will handle all your metal cutting needs and not take you to the poor house. And get a set of aluminum vice jaw protectors.

Best of Building

Roberta
 
Hacksaw, belt sander, scothbrite...

Thanks for all the great information. I used the remaining angle to practice, while I wait for Vans to ship the new piece. The second time around was much better. I still used a hacksaw, but cut at least 1/16" outside the line. I bought the Delta SM500 bench sander and used the disk and belt to then bring each cut up to the line and then used the scotchbrite wheel in my bench grinder to finish up.

The key was not trying to be so perfect with the hacksaw and giving myself a little extra room which I then cleaned up with the bench sander.

I also bought an abrasive metal cutting blade for my 10" miter saw which I'm going to give a try.

I also found an 80 tooth (10 in.) blade for my miter saw which is made specifically for cutting aluminum. It was a little pricey at $60. I'll probably take that back. If anyone has tried one of these I'd be interested to hear how it worked. 80 teeth on a 10 in. blade still seems like too few teeth for cutting aluminum.
 
Where to buy vice jaw protectors...

I looked for some vice jaw protectors but haven't been able to find them yet. Where did you get yours?
 
FROM YOUR SCRAP PILE.........

I looked for some vice jaw protectors but haven't been able to find them yet. Where did you get yours?
All you want to do is to cover the face of the vice with alum. Measure the face of the vice, cut a piece of alum wide enough to bend a tab over the sides and the top by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Notch the corners like you are going to form a box. Then fit it to the jaw... close the vise to hold it in place and take a block of wood and FORM the tabs over. I hold mine in place with rubber cement....;)..........
 
I couldn't resist

Another vote for the cheapo HF cut-off / chop saw. Just be sure to pick up a pack of extra discs while you are there.

OK, you convinced me to go out and buy another tool, (does it ever end).

I went to HF this morning and picked up the chop saw. Works great. Thanks for talking about buying extra disks. None were included with the saw.

Also, I picked up some nice interlocking floor mats that were on sale...easier on the feet than the cement floor.

Thanks
 
You know, I don't remember where those jaw protectors came from!! I remember getting them as a gift or door prize at a seminar.

Roberta
 
Get the small chop saw pictured on Dan's site, it comes in real handy. That works for cutting long sections to length, that's about it.

When you get a bandsaw, go to www.ebandsawblades.com and order a bunch of 1/4" wide 18 TPI blades and you will be ready to start cutting all kinds of complex shapes.

BTW, I found my 14" three wheel bandsaw at a garage sale for $10.

As others have mentioned, make some aluminum protectors for your vice(s).

Three other tips:
1. Buy a bench sander. It will make sanding to final size much easier. (If you sand any steel parts, change the belt. Otherwise you run the risk of pushing steel into your aluminum part.)

2. Don't ever, ever, ever touch any aluminum piece to a bench grinder. Search this site for "bench grinder" and you will find out why.

3. At the bottom of the threads you can select how far back to go to display threads. Go to the TIPS section and start reading the old threads. There is a LOT of good info on there.
 
Miter saw with aluminum cutting blade works great...

I broke down and used my $60 10 in. blade made specifically for cutting aluminum. I put it in my miter saw. It cut the aluminum angle like butter. The cuts look just like the fresh cuts on the ends of the angle from the factory.
 
Grinning from ear to ear

Gotta love a woman who can say 'scary as s**t' and I believe her. Roberta, I'm raising a glass of a particularly nice porter to you! Someday I hope to buy you one for making me laugh. No idea why I found it so funny, but . . . .

As for me, I've been strictly a hacksaw guy, with regular blade changes when the kerf gets slim or I have more than a tooth or two missing. I do not have a vise, I use a combination of wood blocks and wood screws to secure the work to the bench as I go. Weird, I know, but comes from being the poor kid on the block, and it works for me. Off to the files and scotchbrite wheels from there.

For reference, I did the four big L-brackets for the tip-up roll bar mounting (two are 1.5x2" extrusion, the other two are 2x2.5" extrusion) in under an hour last night, start to finish. Probably could have done them all in 15 minutes with a cutoff and bandsaw, but the process was therapeutic somehow, and given how this week went, I really needed it.

Rick 90432
 
I use a jig saw with I believe 32 blades. than use a flat sand, but use the round sand set up for 90 degrees. And of course my trusty file.
 
Be careful.

Abrasive Chop saw blades can overheat aluminum alloys and leave foreign deposits in the previous un-contaminated material.

If you use them don't cut aggressively enough to where they will bubble spit or water on the remaining end of the part your keeping.

Cut long enough to file away the extra that may have gotten embedded foreign material in the aluminum.

You do not want some hairy and scary looking corrosion at the end of some critical longeron showing up 15 years later that requires a difficult repair.

I have seen things like this in extrusions and castings, it is a real possibility.

I use a high quality hacksaw with a bi-metallic cobalt blade and a vise, or the bandsaw very carefully.

I always file till very smooth and clean.

If you get smooth and clean as the finished result and have not overheated it, you will be fine, regardless of you choice of tools.:)
 
Try a Porta-Band

I like the Porta-Band, Made by Porter-Cable, but Milwaukee makes a similar tool and you can get cheap knock-offs from Harbor Freight. Blades are cheap and plentiful, and available in TPI's from 10 to at least 24 teeth per inch. They are also a standard length, so a Milwaukee blade will work on a Porter-Cable, etc. It's aggravating that no such standard exists for the small table-mounted bandsaws. Also, Porta-Bands have a speed control for cutting metal at low speeds; most table bandsaws are made for wood and run too fast! You can cut aluminum angle easily while it's being held by someone else, or just clamped to the workbench.
I have cut everything from small tubing to 14-inch pipe with them!



 
Other Cutting Tool Suggestion From the Farm

Hey farmers:
Invest right now in a small Metabo electric hand grinder with a lot of thin cutoff wheels (and just a few grinding wheels) , if you know you are going to be repairing/welding on a lot of metal after the aircraft is done. Made in Germany, most Milwaukee tool shops have them, but not cheap. The finest, fastest, most efficient handheld cutoff tool I have ever used on the hay farm and in the RV6 shop for bolt cutting, prep for welding and fast but scary freehand cutting of aluminum parts. Secure part well and wear some gloves and safety glasses, and prepare to rip through some metal.

Runs great on the small Honda inverter in the field. Again, as I recall $300 or probably more, I don't remember.