N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
Should this happen to you, and I hope it doesn't, keep cool, obey their commands and when they relax start collecting business cards. The time to complain is when you are back in your office. Then you can spend your time contacting your elected officials and let them know your feelings.

Do not complain to the people on the ground, they are hired thugs, nothing more, nothing less.

Do not do anything aggressive! The unfortunate part of this is that it is just a matter of time until some innocent person gets shot.

AVwebAudio said:
CUSTOMS CHECKS CAUSING CONCERNS
While we understand that Customs and Border Protection is tightening security for aircraft coming into the U.S., a pilot in Long Beach, Calif. says he was met by CBP agents with guns drawn when he was leaving on a flight to Mexico. AVweb's Russ Niles spoke with David Perry about what he says was an unnecessarily frightening experience for him and his three passengers.
Click here to listen. (7.8 MB, 8:31)
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A Plea for More Appropriate Language

Opinions may differ on the needs for security and in particular the need for any particular action by law enforcement.

Still, I think it's not appropriate to call our men and women in uniform who guard our borders "hired thugs".

Also, there was follow up on this in the press and the authorities said it was not routine and that they had a reason. Yes, they could be CYA'ing. But they could also be telling the simple truth.
 
Dan,

Nice read!!

I would be very interested to read the reply to Mr. McCormick's letter if and when he receives it. Please keep us posted.

As a side note???

Do we have any attorneys or people in federal law enforcement in the group that could enlighten us on whether Homeland Security or border patrol has to have probable cause to search your aircraft or if they have card blanche to do anything they want? I personally would like to know if I have any rights to illegal search anymore and if I do, what they are.
 
Licensed mechanic?

I want to know at what level they have authority to start dismantling aircraft.

In the BBP section the one fellow had his Aerostar's rear bulkhead dismantled by some CBP cat with a screwdriver:eek:


Does this guy have an A/P or such? Wanna bet?

It is equally offensive that we now have to have PERMISSION to take our planes out of the country.

Where is Franklin when we need him most?
 
The Customs folks in Key West last Friday were great. They did their job. No doubt verified that I am not a threat to anyone, other than the fashion police, and I left with an overall positive experience.

2b2ack
 
cawmd82 said:
I want to know at what level they have authority to start dismantling aircraft.

In the BBP section the one fellow had his Aerostar's rear bulkhead dismantled by some CBP cat with a screwdriver:eek:


Does this guy have an A/P or such? Wanna bet?
...
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Would it take a log book entry to make the plane legal to fly again after removing a pressure bulkhead? If so, who pays for that?
 
N941WR said:
Would it take a log book entry to make the plane legal to fly again after removing a pressure bulkhead? If so, who pays for that?
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* A&P would need to sign off on the work
* You pay (sorry, but duh)

Someone might want to let the FAA know that other Feds are doing unauthorized maintenance work that could affect the airworthiness of certified aircraft. You have little recourse on any of the other matters, but I think the FAA might get very interested in Feds who aren't A&Ps that are wrenching on certified aircraft.

TODR
 
Interesting

I didn't think traffic cops could stop you without reason. This seems like a traffic stop both without reason and intrusion of personal property without a warrant.

As to weapons drawn this is interesting..I wonder what what would have happened if you pulled your video camera out and started filming the action..I mean presumably you would have a right to do this if your not under arrest etc.

Thoughts?

Frank
 
Filming....

One wonders if they were filming......

Sounds like a good Freedom of Information Act project for the AOPA summer interns.

Another letter to write......
 
Time to act

In recent times, I've been reading more and more about these incidences and I cringe at everyone of them and get upset when these get deleted off the forums. I respect Doug for not wanting to get into the politics of things and the desire to keep it all family and RV related, but we've already had RV's run into problems with the feds. I back the feds at what they do, but there are boundaries and I feel that in a couple of areas, they were exceded. I have boundaries in my job and I know there are bad apples out there that let the power go to their heads and push well beyond their authority. By bringing this up (on the forums), other's who have had encounters can compare notes, address the proper authorities and channels, and hopefully rein in some of the cowboy's out there. They do exist. I've seen 'em and work with them, and its action that you do that get's rid of the bad apples and puts the balance back in the scales. Some of the policies may be coming from higher up or the underlings might be misinterpreting what the order's are. So, please voice your concerns to EVERY representative that you can think of. YOU are part of the system of checks and balances of government. Let them know how you feel about it. For starters a link to the congression subcommittee on aviation is here. http://transportation.house.gov/subcommittees/aviation_members.aspx
Congressman Duncan is from my district and I plan to write him and everyone on the subcommittee about the various encounters. I'm also going to query some people I know in Customs about allowable procedures. I do believe customs can search your aircraft without a warrant, but I'm curious as to what constraints they have in regard to dismantling an airworthy aircraft (major structures)and then releasing it without an A&P doing the work. That would be open and shut liability in my book without any justifiable endemnity. So, that's my take on it. I think discussing these incidences need to be on THESE forums. It's not easy to be spending a lot of money building these airplanes and not knowing whether or not General Aviation will still exist when you finish and are in debt up to your neck in a shiney airplane that you can't fly or even sell.
 
Customs

I agree with Greg M.

Writing your Congressman may get results and is probably our only recourse. This is RV related in that I'm afraid that the freedom of flight we've enjoyed for so long is slipping into a thing of the past.
 
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The key here is knowing what is allowable and what is not. I just went through customs in Key West and they were great. But I am also an Eagle Scout and a good guy. Let's find out what the limits are so that we can ensure that things are done properly.
 
Customs check

Hi,
FWIW, we obviously deal with Canadian and U.S. border agents here, and I have come to understand and respect the powers they have. They are not traffic cops, and I am not willing to test their authority without good cause ....and a lawyer standing behind me!
That said, I wonder exactly WHO are they protecting us from? I would not be very smart to bring all the migrant farmworkers in, one at a time, in my RV.
Nor can I put down in the bush and offload many kilos of drugs in the dark.
I have to wonder if we just aren't an easy to find, high-profile target.
Imagine the cost and manpower to partrol a few dozen airports, vs thousands of miles of coastline where large, fast boats can smuggle tons of booty with relative ease????
I'll be calling my Member of parliament to express my feelings about where and who should be getting the rubber glove treatment...with my tax dollars!
 
frankh said:
I didn't think traffic cops could stop you without reason. This seems like a traffic stop both without reason and intrusion of personal property without a warrant.

As to weapons drawn this is interesting..I wonder what what would have happened if you pulled your video camera out and started filming the action..I mean presumably you would have a right to do this if your not under arrest etc.

Thoughts?

Frank
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I think that camera would end up being searched very quickly and inadvertently being dropped and crushed right there on the ramp. OOppss.
 
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