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woodsideraff

Well Known Member
Has anyone else beside me had trouble with the attach hardware (bushing, AN4-6,and washer) properly fitting?

I find that the holes in the F-1267A&B Brackets allow the bushings through, making the grip of the bolt too long and not holding the installation tight.

I've added 2 internal washers, one on each side of the bushing to solve the problem.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,

Rafael
 
Page 21-06

I remember bolts being too long someplace under the seats and planned to replace them with shorter ones but never did. While looking at page 21-06, I noticed the F-1237E hinges on page 21-07. The hinges for the left seat are correct. But the ones for the right seat are a 1/2" off. Other builders have complained about the right seat being too close to the flap handle. Usually I recommend following the plans. But the plans are wrong in this case. So, install the left seat hinge as pictured. Then make the right seat hinge a mirror image (left to right) of the left seat. When installed correctly, the left and right seat F-1237E hinge barrels should be equal distant from the center of the fuselage.
Joe Gores
 
I don't know another way to say this, but that strap is very "disruptive". Lets just leave it at that. ;)

I installed it, used it once, haven't used it since. :rolleyes:
 
Adjustment

I neglected to consider the physical proportion of my future passengers when installing RH seat restraints and am unable to adjust the crotch strap without removing the entire panel underneath. If adjustment is possible in situ, please tell me the procedure.

Builders: Put this on your list of things to do before sealing up "The Box."

Jim
#264
flying 70 hours
 
Mich48041 said:
While looking at page 21-06, I noticed the F-1237E hinges on page 21-07. The hinges for the left seat are correct. But the ones for the right seat are a 1/2" off. Other builders have complained about the right seat being too close to the flap handle. Usually I recommend following the plans. But the plans are wrong in this case. So, install the left seat hinge as pictured. Then make the right seat hinge a mirror image (left to right) of the left seat. When installed correctly, the left and right seat F-1237E hinge barrels should be equal distant from the center of the fuselage.
Joe Gores
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

Normally you are one of the guys I REALLY listen to on this forum, and your advice is gospel. However, on this topic I am wondering. Have you actually confirmed with Van's that this seat spacing issue is a mistake in the plans? If not, it may be a disservice to builders to advise deviating from the plans.

John
 
N223JH said:
I neglected to consider the physical proportion of my future passengers when installing RH seat restraints and am unable to adjust the crotch strap without removing the entire panel underneath. If adjustment is possible in situ, please tell me the procedure.
Click to expand...

Jim,

I don't remember exactly how, but I know I installed the crotch strap so it can be adjusted just by removing the seat cushion. I think it involved configuring the strap so the adjustment slides are above the seat pan cover, not buried below it. Next time to hangar I will check it.

John
 
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Since I moved my seat attachment forward a couple of inches, I am paying close attention to this thread, might have to make some provisions for relocating the strap also. I have not yet installed seat belts.
 
Joe when I first noticed this possible "mistake", I queried Vans and to the best of my recollection, they simply said "follow the plans and you wll be alright". The offset seat still bothers me as well and I may change the seat position to suit myself.

Mich48041 said:
I remember bolts being too long someplace under the seats and planned to replace them with shorter ones but never did. While looking at page 21-06, I noticed the F-1237E hinges on page 21-07. The hinges for the left seat are correct. But the ones for the right seat are a 1/2" off. Other builders have complained about the right seat being too close to the flap handle. Usually I recommend following the plans. But the plans are wrong in this case. So, install the left seat hinge as pictured. Then make the right seat hinge a mirror image (left to right) of the left seat. When installed correctly, the left and right seat F-1237E hinge barrels should be equal distant from the center of the fuselage.
Joe Gores
Click to expand...
 
If you follow the plans, the seats are symmetrical. The problem involves the seatback piano hinges. If your seats are not centered between the seat belt brackets, you are probably one barrel off on the non-centered seat. I made a mistake when I riveted the pilot side piano hinge to the floor. It was one barrel off. I realized that and compensated by installing the one on the seat-back also one barrel off. It is easy to get these mixed up. It is easy to fix on the seatback.
 
Good thinking Bill, it will be far easier to change there.
I have to further modify my seat back, by moving it forward, now the flipper spacer on the rear goes OVER the bar in back of the seat! Probably just add some material to the flipper gadget.
 
Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Normally you are one of the guys I REALLY listen to on this forum, and your advice is gospel. However, on this topic I am wondering. Have you actually confirmed with Van's that this seat spacing issue is a mistake in the plans? If not, it may be a disservice to builders to advise deviating from the plans. John
Click to expand...
John,
Gee, I hope nobody takes my advice as gospel. I make mistakes too. Just ask my wife. :D
No, I have not confirmed my advice with Van's. I should not have said this was a mistake in the plans. Van's made the left and right F-1237E seat hinges identical to simplify the plans and construction. The finished right seat position is a minor annoyance. Notice in the picture below that the right F-1237E hinges are 1/2" closer to the flap cover than the left hinges are, when built according to plans.
IMG_0706.JPG

The top of the right seat is 1/2" farther away from the roll bar than the left seat is.
After flying for awhile, I noticed the right seat being a little too close to the flap handle. Rather than modify the hinges on the floor, I moved the hinge on the seat. So 2 wrongs make a right. Or do they? Notice in the picture below how the right seat-back hinge has been weakened by cutting it to fit on the left side (R side of picture). I think it better to make the right F-1237E a mirror image of the left ones.
Joe Gores
IMG_0708.JPG
 
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Thanks for the pix Joe, I think I will do the same thing. By the way, as I recall your legs are short also, did you not need to move the mount forward as well like I did?
 
Don,
No, my legs are average length. I did not move the hinges on the floor.
I have to further modify my seat back, by moving it forward, now the flipper spacer on the rear goes OVER the bar in back of the seat!
Click to expand...
Did you mean that the flipper (F-1237G Seatback Brace) goes UNDER the bar? I have a suggestion. Extend the bar (F-1205A Mid Fuse Brace) forward with square tube. To make it removable, the extension could be fastened with Velcro. Or the extension could be shaped like this to snap in place:
Extension1.png

Joe Gores
 
Adjusting crotch strap

I neglected to consider the physical proportion of my future passengers when installing RH seat restraints and am unable to adjust the crotch strap without removing the entire panel underneath. If adjustment is possible in situ, please tell me the procedure.
Click to expand...
Jim,
I am assuming that your crotch strap buckle is above the floor. Look closely to see how many layers of belt go through the floor. If there are 3, try pulling the top layer out. Once the belt end is free, adjustment is possible.
Note to "Well endowed" guys: :D Although the crotch strap might be uncomfortable and hurt in a crash, it can not be as bad as ending up under the instrument panel.
Joe Gores
 
The photo will show you what is happening Joe, notice the scratches on the top of the bar where it rides on top of it. I have not had a chance to study the problem yet fully, I just noticed that when I tried the seat, it rode over the top. Due to my well endowed belly, the semi reclining position created by moving the seat forward is very comfortable for me - AND I can reach the pedals!
2nkp8qb.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Now I see what you mean, Don. I am sure that you will come up with a solution. By the way, what is that on the right side of the picture that looks like nylon tube through a bushing? Is that conduit for the lighting kit (that I do not have)?
Joe
 
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