Jeff R

Jeff R

Well Known Member
I purchased a Lycoming experimental IO-320 and it came with the long term preservation. What I thought that meant was that the engine was full of preservative oil. I was wrong. I guess all it means is that the engine was packed in a vacuum sealed bag with desiccant. It doesn?t even have desiccant plugs, instead having the real thing.

So, living a few hundred feet from the Indian River, a couple thousand feet from the Banana River, and a couple of miles from the Atlantic, in warm, humid Florida where I was swatting mosquitoes today when I hung the engine, what should I do? I don?t expect to fly until the latter part of next year.

Should I fill up the engine with as much oil as I can get inside? Do I spray some WD-40, or how about LP-2 (?) in the plug holes and install desiccant plugs? (Do you use desiccant plugs if the engine is full of oil?) How do I even fill the engine up all the way with oil when it is mounted to the engine ? pour oil down the plug holes the extent possible??

Or do I just keep a normal amount of oil and rotate prop hub once every week or so?

Thanks.
 
Hi Jeff,
I just got through researching this same issue. Long story short here is what I came up with:

Motorcycle/watercraft stores sell "fogging oil". It comes in an aerosol can and is used primarily to treat watercrafts for winter storage. Remove the plugs, spray a bunch of this fogging oil into the combustion chamber and then install the dessicant plugs.

The local Lycoming rep recommends filling the crackcase (and in some cases the entire engine, combustion chambers and valve covers included) with Mineral Oil (aircraft break-in oil) mixed with equal parts STP. I'm modifying this slightly to use Aeroshell Fluid 2F (corrosion preventative oil also known as pickling oil) mixed with a little STP to fill the crankcase.

Hope this helps. Some info can be found on the Aeroshell and Phillips 66 websites and the Lycoming Service Bulletins.
 
Thanks, Larry,
I have not heard of fogging oil.

I did call Lycoming and when I asked about filling up the engine the guy said "Lycoming does not recommend this." Maybe a lawyer was listening in?? I asked about using auto oil for preservation and got a similiar reply. He kept referring me to SB-180.

I talked to a tech counselor who said he used to fill up his engines with oil and periodically turn them every which way to distribute the oil, but when it is intalled on the airplane, you can't really do that!

He also said I could fill it up with a normal amount of oil, remove the top plugs, connect the starter to a batter and let it crank for a bit to circulate oil, then put in the dessicant plugs, and repeat every once in a while. I thought was interesting.

I have a question about the fogging, though. Won't it only get to the upper part of the cylinders? What about the internal workings of the engine? How do you get prtection to the interior?
 
Don't turn that crankshaft!

One very important issue; once an engine is preserved, by whatever method, do not turn the crankshaft.
Turning the crankshaft scrapes the preservative oil from the cylinder walls.
Read Lycoming Service Letter L180B.
 
Yes, the fogging oil is only helping the top end; filling the crankcase is what helps the rest. And as Mel said; don't turn it over if you do this. Funny someone at Lycoming said not to fill the crankcase, as this was told us by the local Lycoming Rep. I did get a lot of conflicting info during my search and what I outlined is what I gleened from this and what I'm doing.
 
If you completely fill the engine with oil, isn't it going to run out the ports? If the carb or throttle body is attached aren't they gonna get soaked? Can't fit the airbox either.

I'm following the advice of one of the engine shops that posts on here (can't remember who) and spraying LPS3 into the plug holes. The instructions were to bring two pistons down, spray, bring em up and spray the other two. Then use dessicant sparkplugs. To make the spraying easier, I bought a couple of spraycans of LPS3, turned em upside down and sprayed until the pressure was gone, cut em open and poured em into a cheap garden sprayer.
 
Ultimate Protection

Jeff,
For ultimate protection of the engine internals, fill the interior completely with oil. With the internal parts of the engine completely submerged in oil, they can not possibly corrode. (no oxygen) This will take some prep work, first.
Acquire a set of old or junk spark plugs.
Purchase 3 cases (yes 36 quarts) of cheap motor or aviation oil.
Obtain an automotive drip pan, like those placed under a car with a leaky engine. These are cheaply available from vendors like Pep Boys or Advance Auto. They are Galvinized steel sheets with shallow sides, about 2' X 4' in size.
You won't be able to fill the cylinders with open valves. This requires you first remove the push-rods, to close all the valves. To do this:

1 Remove each valve cover from it's cylinder head.

2 Remove all 8 spark plugs and store them away.

3 Rotate the crankshaft so that both valves are closed on cylinder #1

4 You can now slide the rocker arm shaft out of it's perch.

5 Remove both rocker arms, taking care to note which is the intake and exhaust.

6 Remove both push-rods from the cylinder. Mark each one for position (cyl #, intake or exhaust & lifter or rocker arm end) Lightly oil the push -rods and store them in a zip lock bag.

7 Re-install the rocker arms (with their shaft) in their proper positions.

8 Re-install the valve cover and gasket

9 Repeat this process for cylinders #2, 3 & 4

10 Install 4 old spark plugs in the lower spark plug holes.

11 Using a funnel, fill each of the 4 cylinders with oil, through the upper spark plug hole.

12 Cap each cylinder with the other 4 old spark plugs

13 Use the remaining oil to fill the crankcase completely up with oil.

14 Place the oil drip pan under the now stored engine. This is installed under the engine because a small amount of oil may slowly drip out past the closed valves or the crankshaft oil seal.

Using this method, you can store an engine for decades. I submitted this on the Lycoming list, last year. Mahlon agreed, that it was the most fool proof storage method.
As with other storage methods, you can not try to rotate the crankshaft once the engine is filled with oil. With this method, it won't scrape off the protection, it will ruin either your arms (most likely) or the engine, due to the fact that the engine is now hydraulic locked.
Don't forget to drain the crankcase and the cylinders before use. You will also need to re-install all the push-rods by reversing the process described above. FYI, do NOT mix up the push-rods during removal or re-installation. Lycoming uses 5 different push-rod lengths to set "dry tappet" clearance on their hydraulic lifter engines.

Charlie Kuss
 
Mel said:
One very important issue; once an engine is preserved, by whatever method, do not turn the crankshaft.
Turning the crankshaft scrapes the preservative oil from the cylinder walls.
Read Lycoming Service Letter L180B.
Click to expand...

My engine came preserved by AeroSport and I installed it in the aircraft within about 4 months of receiving it (installed June 2008). I was aware of the advice about not turning the crankshaft....but in the end that advice turned out to be impractical in my case (and probably impractical for most RV builders).

Firstly it is impossible to assure proper alignment of the Vans spinner without turning the prop. Secondly you need to move the prop slightly to affect the fitting of the cowls.

In my case, after spinning the prop to assure alignment of the spinner, I heated up some Shell engine preservative oil (as recommended for Lycomings) to thin it and sprayed it into the four cylinders with a high pressure car engine cleaner spraygun. I sprayed each cylinder with the piston at the bottom of the stroke. Then I used dessicant plugs.

I'm hoping that will keep things OK in the top end until I start the engine in approx 12-18 months. I'm also hoping that the preservative oil AeroSport put into the crankcase will keep the bottom end in good shape until then as well.

Filling up an engine entirely with oil, and not turning the crankshaft, may be excellent advice for long term storage of an engine off the plane....but I'm not sure that this is practical for the bulk of builders who have to mount the engine to the airframe and move forward with the FWF building process which ultimately means turning the prop at some stage.

It's an interesting topic and one that I have always felt a bit uneasy about. It is of course of more relevance to those builders who might (for one reason or another) have the engine hanging on the airframe for perhaps a couple of years.
 
Charlie, thanks for documenting the steps to take to fully preserve an engine. That is valuable advice in a form that people can actually use. It is one thing to hear "just fill the engine with oil" and another to read a step-by-step on how to actually do it.
 
Anyone got any experience of NOT doing any of the above with an engine after a year or two of storage? Is it inevitably bad or does the overall environment matter?

Jim Sharkey
 
jsharkey said:
Anyone got any experience of NOT doing any of the above with an engine after a year or two of storage? Is it inevitably bad or does the overall environment matter?
Click to expand...

Mine sat in a "Lycoming" pickled state from Van's for eight years, but in a rather dry climate (Utah). The Lycoming rep at Oshkosh figured it could last a long time out here.

The eight year figure..........is the time that all the cylinders were removed for a late 90's AD regarding wrist pins. The interior of the engine, still looked like day one, without a hint of rust.

It's now four years after that, and this engine runs with the best of them, power wise.

In a nutshell, the overall enviroment matters big time! If I lived in a humid area, I'd store the engine in an air conditionioned area if possible. A/C's remove humidity.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Thanks - mine has been two years in south western Vermont. Should be starting it up by spring or sooner.
Jim
 
I have been inspecting an engine that has been pickled for 15 years. I have pulled the mags and accessory plates off to inspect the gear train, and there was a small amount of rust on a tip of a mag gear tooth. No visible pitting under low magnification.
I have pulled the rocker covers, and there is no visible rust on any of the rocker arms or valves.
We will be bore scoping the cylinders this week, then pulling one jug to look at the crank. I will post pictures of everything when we are done so that everyone can see what happened to one engine after 15 years in storage (in a dry environment)

Chris

Here is a link to the pictures I have so far
http://hepburn.chris.googlepages.com/theengine
 
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Fogging the cylinders without turning the crankshaft?

I've read through this thread but don't understand if it's possible to fog the cylinders without turning the crankshaft. Also.. how much mineral oil (or preservation oil) should be added to the crankcase (if not removing pushrods to close all the valves)?

Thanks in advance.
 
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designerX said:
I've read through this thread but don't understand if it's possible to fog the cylinders without turning the crankshaft. Also.. how much mineral oil (or preservation oil) should be added to the crankcase (if not removing pushrods to close all the valves)?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I have the same question..(I know this is an old thread, but new to me)...also, I was looking at aircraft spruce tonight to find many different Aeroshell oils, which kind would be best to use?
 
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