[larryj]

I?m getting close (ever closer ) to launching the panel portion of my Rocket. And I hope to avoid the same old glass vrs steam discussion. So here goes: I had, until very recently, been a true ?steam gauge? guy. Now after flying our Super Decathlon to OSH with a Garmin 496; I?m softening that stance and reconsidering. That 496 is really nice.

Can anyone tell me if I could put a Garmin G600 in my Rocket ?? (I'm asking in light that I know for example, that I cannot put a G900 in it because Garmin is only allowing installs of this into approved airframes). If yes, what would the optimal integrating avionics be that would go along with this G600 (I?m guessing a GNS430 or GNS530; and by the way I see on the Garmin site that there is a high-output comm version of these; a GNS530AW ?. I like that).

Bottom line: what would the most integrated small physical size panel be ??

My current layout would be comprised of a standard six-pack with the Aspen in the center and GNS530AW, SL40, PS8000 (or similar), GTX330, and steam engine gauges.

In speaking with a Garmin person at OSH; we came up with a different configuration of a GMX200, GNS400, SL30 combo ?.. but he said to wait if I possibly could; he made like something really good is in the works along these lines and due to be released around Q1 09. The reasoning behind this GMX200, GNS400, SL30 combo was to give a similar nav display as the 496 (which is very good) because the 430/530 doesn?t have ground depicted.

My primary frustration to-date has been finding a source of information on getting everything to work together. An example of this is the avionics shop that installed the Garmin stuff in my Super Decathlon: had I known if I used the GTX330 xponder I could have had traffic on my 496 I would have done it; and they didn't wire the 496/SL40 so that I could "push" the comm frequency from the 496 into the stby in the SL40 (found out about this feature at AWO). So I'm after some help.

 

[N395V]

If cost is not a huge issue I would take a hard look at OP Technologies.

http://www.optechnologies.com/

The Aspen's look attractive but not a lot of them flying yet.

 

[SteinAir]

Hi Larry,

Believe it or not, a G900X will fit into a Rocket panel, and indeed if you want it we can make it happen - really (doing more RV G900X's than anyone else has it's perks)! Been there done that! Contact me off list for details if you're interested.....we know most of this EFIS stuff pretty well. G600 is also an option.

Regarding OP Technologies, I'd hold off a little bit. Their factory (Aerosonic) just burnt to the ground last week - and things are a bit unknown at the moment.

Cheers,
Stein

 

[gmcjetpilot]

It's only money

I known if I used the GTX330 xponder I could have had traffic on my 496 I would have done it; and they didn't wire the 496/SL40 so that I could "push" the comm frequency from the 496 into the stby in the SL40 (found out about this feature at AWO). So I'm after some help.

Not sure the FAA is supporting the TIS (Traffic Information Service) any more, or at least they cut way back on the program, very limited. That is what the Garmin system used, TIS. It was dependant on the FAA (Ohoops). For traffic people have good luck with the relatively inexpensive passive systems like the Zaon or Monroy. Not integrated with displays (yet) but works with out any FAA ground based system.

You best bet is to contact the manufacture.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Whats she cost, if you have to ask....

Hi Larry,

Believe it or not, a G900X will fit into a Rocket panel, and indeed if you want it we can make it happen - really (doing more RV G900X's than anyone else has it's perks)! Been there done that! Contact me off list for details Cheers,
Stein

What does a G900X go for fully installed today. I want two? I guess its a little more than my $8k panel? ha ha. It's hard to get firm price figures. They don't advertise it. If you need to ask you can't afford it I guess.

 

[mannanj]

Glass

Stein Bruch, aka SteinAir is an RV builder and knows whereof he speaks. I've dealt with him several times in the past and he has always been straight forward and honest. Paul Story, Overloard of Customer Service is the man to talk to. Good quality for the money. No connection other than a satisfied customer.

 

[SteinAir]

I try to be fairly transparent with pricing....it's almost impossible (but not entirely) to do a G900X panel for less than $65 bills, but it's hard to spend more than a hundred on G900X a panel. Typically it's somewhere in between. The good thing with the G900X is there are not many options to choose from, but when you start adding the full blown TCAD into it, the $$'s blossom quickly....and yes...a number of RV guys have it! Now that the Synthetic terrain is out, it's a really slick system! BTW, there are a lot more TIS stations than people assume.

My shop is full of 900's, but my personal plane is not (I'm still using a little Dynon and Garmin 196 - that's it). Kind of an example of the cobbler and his own shoes!

Cheers,
Stein

 

[SteelMike]

My financial planner tells me that winning the lottery is not a viable financial plan, but I think differently.

 

[rv6ejguy]

I try to be fairly transparent with pricing....it's almost impossible (but not entirely) to do a G900X panel for less than $65 bills, but it's hard to spend more than a hundred on G900X a panel.

Cheers,
Stein

Cough, cough, choke.

Whatever happened to lookin' out the window!

 

[Flyrod]

Much to consider

Larry,

Sounds like you are ready to spend some cash on high end glass and you are right about the difference glass makes in cross country flights. The high end systems are very complicated animals, so you really need to do your home work. The replies you will find here can be passion driven (mine included) and short on details. Believe me; the devil is in the details. You really need to have a solid understanding on items like AHARS quality and construction, how well they function with autopilots and what can the autopilot automatically follow (STARS, Holding, and Departures). Really look at VNAV functions and the many other perks offered in these systems to gain a full understanding of an apple to apple comparison.

I would encourage you to seek out pilots in your area that have the systems you are considering and ask if you can come over for a flight or hanger tour. They can plug into aux power and run the system for you in demo mode if flying is not an option. IMHO how the operates (intuitiveness and clarity of information display) is 60% of the qualification process. This is something that can not be explained on a blog and can only be experienced with hands on operation. If you have a chance to go to a big show like Sun N Fun or OSH before you make the decision, plan to spend an entire day playing with the various systems in factory booths while you fend off the resident arm twisters. You should at least enter (from scratch) one flight plan and execute it on each system. If you fly IFR or plan on it in the future, pay close attention to what approaches and departures can be entered with ease and how it interfaces or switches from GPS to ILS and the quality of the GPS receiver included.

(Caution ? Passion Paragraphs below)

If you want SVS and HITS in high end IFR friendly glass, I think the only well proven choices are the Garmin 900X and the Chelton. Although the 900X with SVT is new, I qualify it as well proven because of the quality product Garmin consistently puts out. If you are thinking about spending around $30,000, I think the Chelton is your better choice. The Garmin 600 is a nice unit but the Chelton will provide a true 3D PFD with SVS, HITS and is a better IFR unit for about $5,000.00 less money. If your willing to spend $75,000 and don?t mind shoe horning the 900X in the dash, then you would have the best available ?right now?. I stress ?right now? because the downside to computer driven avionics is that it will be yesterday?s news much quicker than the aviation industry is use to seeing.

http://www.cheltonflightsystems.com/Prod_cert_fea_3d_synth1.html#

Personally, I feel you can have too much integration in computer electronics. Those of you who have built your own computers know what I am talking about. I like the fact that I have a standard radio stack and can easily mix and match radios, transponders, intercoms and autopilots. If a new technology comes out in a couple years that I just got to have, its easy to swap out. A fully integrated system and you are at the factory?s mercy for upgrades and price of replacement. I realize the industry is trending towards full integration, but IMHO it?s more for the avionics and airframe builder?s benefit than ours.

(TIS traffic)

As Stein mentions, TIS is still readily available in the areas where you really need it (except Pensacola area where you do need it and it is not there). In Florida, we still have good coverage unless you are out in the boonies or Pensacola. Your mileage may vary depending on where you mainly fly. The link below is a good graphic as to the situation through 2013.

http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/tis.jsp

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Thanks Stein

I try to be fairly transparent with pricing....it's almost impossible (but not entirely) to do a G900X panel for less than $65 bills, but it's hard to spend more than a hundred on G900X a panel. Cheers,
Stein

That is why RV'ers like your service, you tell it like it is. I can tell you some avionics shops are not so willing to offer prices (even ball park prices). They were hoping to get my plane into their shop with a signed blank check or 2nd mortgage on my home tacked to the wall.

I also have winning the lottery as part of my financial portfolio. Nice gear no doubt. Now I am off to 7-11, to buy "win a G900X panel" lotto tickets.

I called Chelton; at the time I was interested in their EFIS, just before the G900X came out. I could not get anyone to tell me the price, including Chelton. They referred me to their distributors, avionics shops; it was a secret. I gave up and a year later they called me, wanting to know when I wanted to install my new Chelton panel. Too late.