turbo

turbo

Well Known Member
does the inspection need to be signed off in both the airframe and engine log books? thanks
 
Walt said:
Airframe only.
Click to expand...

What Walt said...

You don't even need to write the engine compressions in the engine log, if you don't want to.

I keep my completed condition inspection check list with my logs as a record of what I performend and found. Anyone who may purchase my plane in the future is going to get a file folder of those things.
 
N941WR said:
....
I keep my completed condition inspection check list with my logs as a record of what I performend and found. Anyone who may purchase my plane in the future is going to get a file folder of those things.
Click to expand...

The FAA does not use the term "log books" in the FARs.

They say "maintenance records" - your file folder qualifies...:)

How you keep your records is basically up to you - but with restrictions on computer records...
 
You guys must be talking about the AIRCRAFT logbook.

None of my planes have ever had an airframe logbook.

Where can I purchase an airframe logbook?
 
Maintenance Records

turbo said:
does the inspection need to be signed off in both the airframe and engine log books? thanks
Click to expand...

May not be an official requirement but the A&P I use signs the condition inspection in my airframe, engine, and prop logbooks.
 
gasman said:
"Fixed-pitch propeller aircraft do not have a Propeller Logbook because the propeller is considered part of the airframe."

Just a quote from this guys web site......... http://albuquerquedpe.com/Inspections.aspx
Click to expand...

Sensenich thinks otherwise and ships you a propeller log book with their certified props...:)

If you get an experimental prop, you get to print out your own log book....

http://www.sensenich.com/files/documents/Miscellaneous_Documents_Sensenich_Log_Book_1287584172.pdf
 
Last edited:
C/S maintenance recording

I have the Hartzell C/S prop from Van's that came with a prop log book. Other than major items such as a prop/hub overall, what would you normally record in the prop log book during a condition inspection?
 
I record the inspections called for in the prop manual. Similarly, I record the inspections Superior called for in my engine log. Those inspections are based on flight hours and don't necessarily coincide with the condition inspection. Like Bill, I keep my condition checklist, which has a section for findings and corrective actions taken. If any item is major (like the time I replaced a starter and ring gear), then I record it in the appropriate logbook but the condition inspection sign-off from my airworthiness only goes in the aircraft log.
 
Hi .. I built and fly an RV 7A and have the Repairman Cert for this plane.
When finishing any maintenance, I note it in the Engine, Prop of Airframe maintenance records .. ( 3 ring Binder )
My question is .. what is the proper entry in the log book stating the work is complete and inspected.. now the plane is ready to be safely flown? I'm told that stating the Aircraft, engine or Prop is in "Airwothy Condition" can not be used in an expermintal certification..:confused:
 
Right!

Mr. Pilot said:
Hi .. I built and fly an RV 7A and have the Repairman Cert for this plane.
When finishing any maintenance, I note it in the Engine, Prop of Airframe maintenance records .. ( 3 ring Binder )
My question is .. what is the proper entry in the log book stating the work is complete and inspected.. now the plane is ready to be safely flown? I'm told that stating the Aircraft, engine or Prop is in "Airworthy Condition" can not be used in an experimental certification..:confused:
Click to expand...

The term "airworthy" does not apply to experimental amateur-built aircraft. Airworthy means that the aircraft complies with it's type certificate.
The correct terminology is "in a condition for safe operation".
 
Mr. Pilot said:
Hi .. I built and fly an RV 7A and have the Repairman Cert for this plane.
When finishing any maintenance, I note it in the Engine, Prop of Airframe maintenance records .. ( 3 ring Binder )
My question is .. what is the proper entry in the log book stating the work is complete and inspected.. now the plane is ready to be safely flown? I'm told that stating the Aircraft, engine or Prop is in "Airwothy Condition" can not be used in an expermintal certification..:confused:
Click to expand...

This is explained in your EXPERIMENTAL OPERATING LIMITATIONS PHASE 2 that is required to be in the aircraft.....
 
Last edited:
gasman said:
This is explained in your EXPERIMENTAL OPERATING LIMITATIONS PHASE 2 that is required to be in the aircraft.....
Click to expand...

Warren,
Mr. Pilot's question was regarding log entries after doing maintenance or repairs.

The operating limitations only stipulate what the entry should be for the yearly condition inspection. This statement does not have to be used for every single log entry.
 
Yea .. I knew the condition inspection statement ..
I'm talking Oil & Filter changes, prop grease, oil sending unit replacement, tire changes.. and so on. So I just state what maintenance performed ..
I recall that on a certified airplane, after maintenance, there should be a test flight, and log entry, before it can be returned to flight status. Is this just for certified rental aircraft? or should I also be making a test flight entry? If so where does it go?

Mike Brown :confused:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You cannot go wrong if.....

ATTENTION EVERYONE! ASSUME YOUR MAINTENANCE IS LIKE A CHESS GAME!!!!!!! You can make one wrong move and wind up losing everything!!! You make an entry in the airframe logbook that covers the airframe, the prop book that covers the prop and the engine book that covers the engine(to include a oil sample!!!!). Make sure you disclose the proper time for everything and you cannot go wrong. Anybody can be lazy and just do one signoff for the entire airplane but my advice is to quote the regs during the signoff, do 3 different entries like I described and then attach a work order to the logbook or keep in in a folder. My pet peeve is that everything is unreadable!!! PRINT YOUR NAME, CERT AND then sign it! I see TONS of entries that are unreadable and the mech does not print their name! Often times you need more space than is given to give a neat appearance and also describe everything in necessary detail. Write down everything you have done to the airplane.... to include the type and manufacturer of everything you put on your airplane. If you are as detailed as possible, it makes the next annual soooooooo much easier. What if you end up in court? You are going to get laughed at if you just said - annual or conditional inspection completed at this time and date! The lawyers are going to have a field day.. not to mention that your ticket will end up in the file 13 at the FAA office. Pictures don't hurt either. Most of my annuals are 3 entries AND a note that says AD list enclosed along with the WO! I had a guy badmouth me locally about a mooney I grounded from a flight school. I had called the FAA and my Lawyer about what to do with this polished piece of junk and I did what they told me to do. Everybody and their mother came to me about what I bad person I was to do this!!! You should of seen the looks on everyone's faces!!!!!! they thought I was the bad guy.... until I showed them the 6 page log entry and all the pictures. Then I turned the tables! Talk about a mass exodous of customers from this airplane!!!! When you have a mixture cable sawing through flight controls, you might want to know about it. Pictures and ample description saved my rear!!!!! PS that mooney is now in Texas... no longer at a flight school in Atlanta. Hopefully they fixed it. The second mechanic they hired refused to sign it off as well... As far as RV's go. I've got to applaud most of the builders. I've seen some really shady stuff but for the most part, the RV builders take great pride in their build as well as records. Somehow when you are invested in a project.... the quality really seems to shine. So hats off to the RV builders for really taking the time to make things right!
 
Last edited:
Mike,
No test flight required unless it would be considered a major repair /alteration. IE: changing flight controls, engines, props, fuel systems etc..

For regular mntc just put in the work performed and a statement that you checked it (for example: ran engine, no leaks noted), sign, date and hours.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Warren,
Mr. Pilot's question was regarding log entries after doing maintenance or repairs.

The operating limitations only stipulate what the entry should be for the yearly condition inspection. This statement does not have to be used for every single log entry.
Click to expand...

Oh Scott, you just said that to stay 50 posts ahead of me.........:eek:

But yes, you are correct. That statement is not for maintenance. But it is used to replace "Airworthy condition"
 
Thanks guys.. I am a stickler when it comes to building, so I want my records to have the same high level of workmanship. I have pictures of all condition inspections and maintenance items.. like worn tires, loose lock nut's,
cracks in fiberglass, before and after repair. I am using a Condition Inspection check list I found on line, modified it to match my plane.
My mistake is stating in the maintenance records these words:
" I have repaired and inspected the plane and find it to be in airworthy condition"
Should I line out those words and state ".. find it to be in a condition for safe operation"..?
or
Just start using " ...safe condition".. from now on??? No line out..

Thanks again...

Mike
 
I would make the correction to your previous entries.
And initial the corrections.
 
brianwallis said:
As far as RV's go. I've got to applaud most of the builders. I've seen some really shady stuff but for the most part, the RV builders take great pride in their build as well as records. Somehow when you are invested in a project.... the quality really seems to shine. So hats off to the RV builders for really taking the time to make things right!
Click to expand...

This is why I only work on a few select certified aircraft (owners that actually care about thier plane) and MUCH prefer to stick with RV's. Compared to certified owners, I've not had to deal with a single RV owner that balks about a repair or a labor bill to improve the aircraft. RV owners will usually say something like "wow I'm glad you found that" while the average certified owner will complain about every little thing your find and really doesn't want or care to fix anything :eek:
 
brianwallis said:
You make an entry in the airframe logbook that covers the airframe, the prop book that covers the prop and the engine book that covers the engine(to include a oil sample!!!!).
Click to expand...
I do that, but only the airframe (Ok, aircraft) logbook has the verbiage for the condition inspection from the operating limitations. It's a nit, I admit, but I don't think the blanket statement for the condition inspection belongs in the engine and prop logs. However, work I do on those components during the condition inspection gets logged in their respective books in the same manner as the manufacturer's required inspections get logged.

I agree about the detail, though. That's why I have a formal checklist for the inspection that gets dated and signed when complete and has a copious section for notes detailing any squawks I found and corrective action taken. I keep those filed so they can be presented along with the logbooks if needed, and refer back to them as I do the next inspection to look for trends.
 
record entries

the main reason to have seperate entries in all logs/records is so that if/when those items are later sold, the new owner has a compleat record of the maintenance performed on his or her engine, prop......Etc. FYI most new production aircraft come with log books for Aircraft, Engine, Propeller, and Avionics. A good way to think about it is; if I were buying this part used- what would I like to see as the log/records. Good luck, Russ
 
"Fixed-pitch propeller aircraft do not have a Propeller Logbook because the propeller is considered part of the airframe."
Click to expand...
No, that ain't right. As Al said, the FAA does not mandate maintenance record format. They only care about content. Certain things have to be recorded in specific ways and must remain until superseded. In the certified world the most common way is to keep a log for each Type Certificated product. This means Aircraft, Engine, and Propeller. FAR part 1 gives the definition for an "Aircraft" which includes all it's components (engine/prop, etc). By this definition an Annual only needs to be logged in the Aircraft maintenance record. Even so, many I.A.'s will also log Annuals in the Engine and Propeller records. The reason is these are TC'd components and by logging say, an Engine Annual, you may then put that engine into service on a different Airframe without reinspecting. Same for a Prop. If you have an Experimental Aircraft you don't have to show conformity to a TC (legally), so all you really need is a piece of paper (or file) with a Condition Inspection sign-off. If by some chance you have a certificated Engine or Propeller and want to put it back on a certificated Aircraft it will need to have an Annual performed on it to insure that it conforms to it's TC.
 
Considering the potential benefits of having an accurate history on the engine, and prop, should you decide to sell either one of them in the future, I would think the additional effort to make a couple of simple log entries is a "no-brainer".

Good thread, and nicely timed, as I am doing my yearly inspection at this time.

Anybody wanna take bets how many logs I will be filling out:D
 
Another consideration.....

Aircraft maintenance is often judged by the content of the "sign-off". If I see an entry that says, "Engine overhauled this date", I have no idea what was done. I would consider the quality of the overhaul to be about the same as the quality of the sign-off.
On the other hand, if the entry includes the parts that were reconditioned, the parts that were replaced, and the limits to which the other parts were inspected, and what overhaul manual was used, I would have considerably more confidence in that engine.
I would much rather see several pages than one line!
 
time of annual etc.

Hey, quick question....if I do my annual in October, then the weather turns to #$%&, and I don't fly until March, when is it 'correct', and when is it 'allowed' to date my annual inspection?
IF I don't 'test fly' until March, and make the log entry as such, can I just consider my craft 'out of annual' if not flown for the winter?

any advice appreciated.
 
You can do anything once....

flyboy1963 said:
Hey, quick question....if I do my annual in October, then the weather turns to #$%&, and I don't fly until March, when is it 'correct', and when is it 'allowed' to date my annual inspection?
IF I don't 'test fly' until March, and make the log entry as such, can I just consider my craft 'out of annual' if not flown for the winter?

any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

It's the real world, you can do anything once..... And Darwin does not have a quota for race, gender sex or anything else either..... the right thing to do is to sign off the inspection when you complete it regardless of the test flight. Keep a close eye on the aircraft through the year like most RV owners and DO YOUR 100 HR INSPECTIONS! Assume that you missed something on the Annual, assume that rabid animals have made a nest where it's hard to get to and assume that there are missing tools floating around in your aircraft... so that means NO NEGATIVE G'S if you can at all avoid them. Don't need stuff floating up and into your flight controls. If you are going to do aerobatics, make sure there are no "spare" items to float around and ruin your day. I'd take Russell's advice if I were you.... :)
Best
Brian
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.