Bob Gordon

Bob Gordon

Active Member
AD 2008-19-05 requires me to perform a compression check on my "Group A" cylinders at 50 hour intervals. My annual conditional inspection is due almost exactly between comp checks.

I also have the same situation with the oil and oil filter, where they have about 20 hours remaining at the conditional. I do not intend to lose 20 hours on the oil and filter just to schedule them to the conditional, and will change the oil and oil filter about 20 hours after, on their own schedule. I have signed off the conditional twice this way in the past.

Do I have the option to perform the 50-hour comp check per the AD separate to the conditional and still consider the conditional to be adequate for sign-off, like the oil and filter? I still plan to inspect, clean, and test the plugs for the conditional.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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Hi Bob,

I would just clean the plugs when you?re checking your compression, when you?re checking your cylinder condition every 50 hours I would just fill in the blanks on the annual on time and just do the checks on there schedule, just write in the last compression numbers for the annual also. This is coming from a guy that does 50 hours every two months. YMMV.
 
AD's don't apply in a legal sense to experimental aircraft, so you can do those checks per the AD as you see fit.
 
If you are signing off the Condition Inspection, you can do as you see fit, the determination of safe operation is in your hands. If not, you have to get with your mechanic and see what he says. Most people would be reasonable about it, especially if you had documented the previous oil changes... As for the compression check, it doesn't cost you extra to do it, so why not?
 
Well, not exactly...

osxuser said:
If you are signing off the Condition Inspection, you can do as you see fit, the determination of safe operation is in your hands. If not, you have to get with your mechanic and see what he says. Most people would be reasonable about it, especially if you had documented the previous oil changes... As for the compression check, it doesn't cost you extra to do it, so why not?
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...since your Operating Limitations have a statement about meeting the requirements of FAR 43 - Appendix D.

Very partial list....

1) Engine section--for visual evidence of excessive oil, fuel, or hydraulic leaks, and sources of such leaks.
(2) Studs and nuts--for improper torquing and obvious defects.
(3) Internal engine--for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.

You sign the inspection off to the Appendix D requirements - check the Operating Limitations...

Typical statement -

d. Condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR Part 43, Appendix D, and found to be in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, the name, signature, and certificate type and number of the person performing the inspection.
 
I know an A&P/IA that was fined, by the FAA, because he didn't change the oil, filter and inspect the screens and old filter during an annual inspection because it was done 10 hours earlier. He signed off that he performed the inspection in accordance with the manufacturer?s check list and the check list said to change the oil and filter and inspect the filter and screens. He wrote in the log that he didn?t change the oil or filter because it was done earlier when he signed off the annual. The FAA saw the entry during a ramp check a year later. The FAA's opinion was that the oil, filter etc. was OK earlier but there was no way you could guarantee it was OK when he signed off the annual and they crucified him because they said he made a false maintenance entry when he signed off the inspection as airworthy because he didn?t do everything that the check list required to make that statement.
The FAA looks at things "by the book" and they normally don't apply what most would consider a commons sense type opinion to the facts.
Be careful.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
?The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."
 
AMEN

N395V said:
Another good reason to never carry your logbooks in the plane.
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and AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!

Log the absolute minimum required. OTOH, don't fail to log what's required.

Produce your logs only when asked. (From years of airshow performer experience.)

ARROW, only. (Unless you aren't heading out of the country, then: AROW.

You get the drift...............
 
Did you do a gear retraction test on your last Condition Inspection? My point being that not everything in the scope and detail of Appendix D has to be done on every airplane. The checklist exists so you don't FORGET something, not so you blindly follow it. I use a proprietary checklist that complies with the scope and detail of Appendix D, and make all notes accordingly. If I changed the oil 10 hours before, and checked the engine at that time, I will note it on the oil change part of the checklist, and move on. If someone ELSE did it, that is another story.

If someone says they did something they didn't do, that is worthy of action on the part of the FAA, if they simply determined compliance was already existent... and logged it as such, I see no problem.
 
Not a very good argument...

osxuser said:
Did you do a gear retraction test on your last Condition Inspection? My point being that not everything in the scope and detail of Appendix D has to be done on every airplane. The checklist exists so you don't FORGET something, not so you blindly follow it. I use a proprietary checklist that complies with the scope and detail of Appendix D, and make all notes accordingly. If I changed the oil 10 hours before, and checked the engine at that time, I will note it on the oil change part of the checklist, and move on. If someone ELSE did it, that is another story.

If someone says they did something they didn't do, that is worthy of action on the part of the FAA, if they simply determined compliance was already existent... and logged it as such, I see no problem.
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The requirement is scope and detail....

The detail bit - and the gear retraction you mention - is covered quite sensibly in the "where applicable" bit of text at the start of every section...:)

You oil change example is a poor one too, since an oil change is not even mentioned in the Appendix D.

For completeness, here is the entire powerplant section -

d) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) components of the engine and nacelle group as follows:
(1) Engine section--for visual evidence of excessive oil, fuel, or hydraulic leaks, and sources of such leaks.
(2) Studs and nuts--for improper torquing and obvious defects.
(3) Internal engine--for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.
(4) Engine mount--for cracks, looseness of mounting, and looseness of engine to mount.
(5) Flexible vibration dampeners--for poor condition and deterioration.
(6) Engine controls--for defects, improper travel, and improper safetying.
(7) Lines, hoses, and clamps--for leaks, improper condition and looseness.
(8) Exhaust stacks--for cracks, defects, and improper attachment.
(9) Accessories--for apparent defects in security of mounting.
(10) All systems--for improper installation, poor general condition, defects, and insecure attachment.
(11) Cowling--for cracks, and defects.

All of the items are quite reasonable for the once a year inspection.

Having your own checklist is fine, but it should be in compliance with the FAR 43 -Appendix D - you can check what is needed here, observing the "where applicable" bit of course --

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_G...802c5e7fd617a350852566ab006bcc54!OpenDocument

When you sign your maintenance record (aka log book) you are signing it as correct on a particular day at a specific airframe/engine time in service, not some period 10 hours before. The FAA wording is quite specific on the notation required.

...but it's your signature....
 
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Here's a thought!

Instead of trying to schedule you oil change around an annual condition inspection, conduct your annual condition inspection at oil change time. There's nothing that says you have to wait until the last month to do a condition inspection.
This is what I do.
 
Do you have to the complete inspection in one big chunk? What if you did it in several separate work sessions, with the aircraft being put back into a flyable state after each work session? You'd record the inspection as being completed once all required items were done, but maybe you actually started working your way through the items a month before. If you took this approach, perhaps the oil change was done during one of the earlier work sessions that comprised the whole inspection.
 
Kevin Horton said:
Do you have to the complete inspection in one big chunk? What if you did it in several separate work sessions, with the aircraft being put back into a flyable state after each work session? You'd record the inspection as being completed once all required items were done, but maybe you actually started working your way through the items a month before. If you took this approach, perhaps the oil change was done during one of the earlier work sessions that comprised the whole inspection.
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Technically you are supposed to do it all in one chunk. What you are talking about is a "progressive" inspection program and this would have to be approved for your particular aircraft. Typically, progressive inspections are not approved for our type of aircraft.
 
The required wording...

Kevin Horton said:
Do you have to the complete inspection in one big chunk? What if you did it in several separate work sessions, with the aircraft being put back into a flyable state after each work session? You'd record the inspection as being completed once all required items were done, but maybe you actually started working your way through the items a month before. If you took this approach, perhaps the oil change was done during one of the earlier work sessions that comprised the whole inspection.
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...is very specific...

"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR Part 43, Appendix D, and found to be in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, the name, signature, and certificate type and number of the person performing the inspection.
 
az_gila said:
...is very specific...

"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR Part 43, Appendix D, and found to be in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, the name, signature, and certificate type and number of the person performing the inspection.
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And yet, VERY rarely is the whole airplane actually INSPECTED on the SAME DATE it was signed off...

Of course, I'm not saying that I wouldn't do a compression check, since it's EASY and FREE, but for semantics sake, I don't think the technicality you are citing holds water in the real world.

As for maintaining the checklist for records, I do it for a VERY simple reason, if I get dragged to court, I know EXACTLY what I did on that airplane. A log book entry will not suffice in a negligence lawsuit.
 
I think were picking nits here....

....since my Air Tractor took three weeks to annual. It was signed off the day I picked it up and to me it simply means that as of that day, all the required work had been done...the same thing basically applies to our experimentals since there's no way that a good, complete annual can be done in a day. Just sign the logbooks when you're finished and go fly:)

My -02,
 
Yep on the date....

osxuser said:
And yet, VERY rarely is the whole airplane actually INSPECTED on the SAME DATE it was signed off...

Of course, I'm not saying that I wouldn't do a compression check, since it's EASY and FREE, but for semantics sake, I don't think the technicality you are citing holds water in the real world.

As for maintaining the checklist for records, I do it for a VERY simple reason, if I get dragged to court, I know EXACTLY what I did on that airplane. A log book entry will not suffice in a negligence lawsuit.
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...but the entry also includes the "Total Time In Service".

You can inspect in many shifts, and you complete on a particular day as Pierre says, but if you fly it in-between then this statement will be false in the real world...

...but it's your signature....
 
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