Louise Hose

Louise Hose

Well Known Member
Cleared to depart the Class C airport and turn southeast on course, I made my usual departure yesterday afternoon. At about 1500' msl, the controller came on and announced traffic immediately above me at 3000', headed southeast, and appeared to be a Cessna. I pulled off my ball cap and searched the sky above. Nothing. I shallowed out the climb and kept an intense search straight up, with quick scans ahead and to the sides. I tried to look behind but the bow/roll bar of the -6 blocked the view behind. Maybe the first time I wished I was in the -8!

Finally, at about 2500' msl, I spotted the Skylane. Slightly behind me, in level cruise, and moving slightly faster than I was (in climb). The Class C tower controller, who had no obligation to tell me anything since the Cessna was outside his space had given no further advice but I told him that I had the traffic. Now outside his airspace, he acknowledged and made a positive release of me (which they typically don't do at this airport). I sidestepped to the east, continued climbing to my usual 2800', then leveled off and finally pulled ahead of the Skylane. I'm sure he didn't see me until I sidestepped and he wasn't apparently using flight following. I don't know for certain that he ever saw me.

While I commonly S-turn during steep descents into a field, I had become lax about climb outs, trusting the excellent upward visibility of the RVs. I was shocked how close I got even knowing there was traffic up there. I now realize how blind my RV is to the rear, especially when wearing a cap. I'll be MUCH more aware of looking up during climbs in the future.
 
Louise, good report, Laura and I had the same kind of thing happen recently while leaving the Homecoming-------

Flight following is GREAT:D

The upward vis in a 10 is not good, BTW.
 
Glad you finally ID'd the enemy.

A friend has a portable aircraft alert device in his open bi-plane and has offered to loan it for a try out after he grounds his machine for the winter. It is becoming more and more apparent such a device is a good idea. I don't know the make or model but will report how effective it is. He swears by it.

The sky appears empty most days but I doubt it is.
 
Love my TIS traffic for the same reason, once you fly with traffic it becomes a real eye opener on just how much traffic is around you that you don't see.
 
Louise, glad it was of no consequence.

When we had our first plane, a coyote S6, we thought we were the only plane in the sky most of the time totally oblivious of our surrrounding. Then we built the RV with TIS in it. During my first few flights I was as concern about the RV flying as all the traffic around since it the kept seeing traffic in the TIS. The it came my wife?s first flight after the phase I and she was just as panicking as I was earlier on about all the traffic around but we like it very much.

One day we took off from a class D airport and were just maneuvering when we spotted a Cessna 172 in a climbing turn coming right at us. We change direction/altitude (thanks to RV maneuverability) and the Cessna never knew that he was turning just towards us. And then my wife said? ?We will buy a Zaon? since we were outside of TIS coverage. Of course my response was, whatever you want honey.
 
Walt said:
Love my TIS traffic for the same reason, once you fly with traffic it becomes a real eye opener on just how much traffic is around you that you don't see.
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As long as traffic gets out of my way what do I care? :confused:

Kidding! :D

Walt what brand of "fish finder" and features do you like in your TIS.

Great thread Louise. I am traveling to more "urban areas" in my -10 with a full passenger load. It seems like the more people in the plane the less attention time I have to look for traffic. A warning system would be nice.
 
Geico266 said:
Walt what brand of "fish finder" and features do you like in your TIS.
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I run the Garmin 330 with 696 doing display duty. Once we get ADS-B up in this neck of the woods I'll probably be adding one of those to the arsenal :)
 
Louise and I were talking about this, and I told her how I am always surprised how much of a visibility-limiter a ball cap can be – especially in the -8! By necessity, us balding types have to wear something to keep the cancer risk low when flying under a bubble canopy in the sunshine, but on occasion, I like to take the hat off and TRULY enjoy the bubble canopy of the -8 while flying aerobatics – I do this mostly when there is a high overcast to give me some protection. I have become spoiled with the -8’s bubble, and am surprised how much more limited the view can be when I fly the -6. (Getting into a Cessna is almost like going caving!)

I must admit that I get a little nervous when I see traffic/visibility discussions turn praise for TIS/TCAS/ADS-B, etc. Sure, they are good tools to have, but never forget that there is a LOT more traffic that isn’t shown on the “fish-finders”. Take a look at the number of private grass fields within a 100-mile radius of Houston, and guess how many have no-electrical-system Cubs based on them. Flight Following? Sure – but again, the controller only sees the stuff that is squawking – so there is no defense as good as looking out the windows!

As Louise pointed out, you need to know your airplane’s blind spots and move the airplane around to make sure you’re scanning the whole sky. Don’t sit there relying on the electronics to alert you to what’s out there. The new tools are only an enhancement if they don’t lead to relaxed vigilance of eyeballs out the windows. Remember that traffic systems were initially designed for IFR use by airliners….the logic behind them does not necessarily translate fully into the VFR GA world. Don’t’ fall into the trap of keeping your eyes on the screen to “see” the world around you – especially in high-density traffic areas!

Paul
 
Close call--think about this--

Living in Beaufort SC, we generally have military aircraft flying quite a bit.
F-18s either departing or arriving over the Broad River (very near my house), on their routes to the ocean MOA's. WE also have civilian traffic from Beaufort County, and Hilton Head moving around. I know that when I've flown with Lee Logan( F1 Rocket) or Dennis Argetsinger (Lancair), I've tried to look out for the F-18's, and the Dash 8-s going to and from Hilton Head.
Wednesday evening, a Beech was leaving Bft. County, flying towards Savannah at about 2000 ft. A F18 had launched from MCAS Beaufort, on a parallel course towards the ocean, lower than normal, probably about 2000 feet also. I know they could not have seen each other, and the planes could not have been more than 500 feet when they crossed. Whether or not the MCAS controllers had the Beech isnt my point----IF they had collided, they would have been over the River----and any of you that have flown into Hilton Head or Beaufort County know how wide the river is, and deep.
Not the first time, and regretably probably not the last time, but surely a tense moment for me, watching this take place, and nothing I could do.

Please be safe, my friends----
Tom
 
See and Avoid is a of course a cornerstone of aviation but its also not going to work in many situations no matter how vigilant someone is. If your distracted for 30 seconds by anything then you have the potential for a collision. How often is someone heads down in the cockpit making entries in a GPS or EFIS. How often do you hit the wrong key and have to start over ect...
A TIS or PCAS system is simply another tool to add to see and avoid. In this day and age its one of the cheapest life saving tools you can have in your aircraft. You can have the basic ZAON for 500 dollars. As others have mentioned if you have never flown with one before you will be very surprised at how much traffic you were not seeing.
On the subject of fighters they tend to think they own the sky. They are also often have a waiver on speed below 10k. In their defense however they have to fly IFR to and from training airspace and the onboard radar is excellent. Normally on departure the first thing I would do once airborne was start looking with the radar for traffic. Once traffic is locked up on radar fighters will often blow by quite close but they have you locked up and in sight. Because they are normally doing 300 knots the zone they have to scan for a collision is actually quite small and always in front. In the RV however we have to be watching 360 degrees. Another reason to get a traffic system!!

George
 
no way you can see them all!

I agree with George on this one. In some cases it happens so fast you really have no chance visually. The closest call I ever had was on an IFR flight in MVFR conditions near Pontiac MI. Had just got the plane established at 4000 feet or so when an Aerostar passed slightly under me moving from right to left. The only reason I saw him was because he was so close (less than 100 feet). He was there and gone in less than 2 secs. When I questioned the controller, there was a very long silence. I let it go.

That was many years ago but if I would have had my traffic warning on the GRT like I do now, at least I could have had my head up and been looking in that direction.

I love the new technology and look forward to the improvements coming. I also use advisories any time I fly VFR cross country.
 
the pcas systems not only work well but are a constant reminder in your face to keep a look out. passengers now become expert lookouts when briefed on the pcas unit. love my small zaon unit. portable too. :)
 
Interesting. I flew with the Garmin G3X traffic feature in Doug's Flash. I found the traffic feature interesting and useful but what really impressed me was the traffic that WASN'T on the Garmin. The closest I came to another plane on the flight from Oshkosh to Houston via St. Paul was on a descent for fuel. A low flying Cub, probably without a transponder, didn't show on the traffic finder. That quickly shattered my illusions that TIS was magical.

I look forward to using it as a tool in the RV-3 when it flies, but I will never assume it is making me significantly safer.

BTW, on my usual commute, I probably see less than one plane a week outside of traffic patterns. This morning, I saw two. Better vigilance in my search for traffic or luck? Not sure, but I intend to be much more vigilent in my flights in the future.
 
Ironflight said:
Louise and I were talking about this, and I told her how I am always surprised how much of a visibility-limiter a ball cap can be ? especially in the -8! By necessity, us balding types have to wear something to keep the cancer risk low
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I thought the correct application of a ball cap nowadays was with the brim in the back! (or side) :D :D

Maybe I'll have to switch to a dew rag under the headset. :rolleyes:
 
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Louise Hose said:
.....Better vigilance in my search for traffic or luck? Not sure, but I intend to be much more vigilent in my flights in the future.
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I play a game when flying.....it's a combat game and winning is seeing the enemy first.

Don't ask how it is graded, I just do it. Some times even a gentle S turn to check blind spots.

Part of the problem is keeping ones mind on scanning for traffic. Flight can be very benign and sleep inducing if one is not motivated. What's the old saying, hours and hours of boredom broken on rare occasion by shear terror.

An IFR flight plan is no panacea. CAVOK requires the most vigilance, night with low vis and ceiling is much more comforting, the Cherokees are in their tepees.

A near miss is a wake up call. When I have one, I blame myself for letting the enemy get in so close. There is plenty written about successful combat pilots, they saw the enemy first.
 
For me TCAS is a tool, not a guarantee.

But my experience so far has shown it to be great tool to have and certainly worth the $$$
 
Flight Following is great, but I have been in more than a few near misses without hearing a word from ATC. The -8 also has the 330 transponder and will display traffic on the 430 and EFIS - sometimes. Both circumstances illustrate the value of another set of eyes looking out for you, but also that the primary responsibility lies with the PIC. In this case, it's very much an "everyone for himself" type of situation.

Like many, I've grown accustomed to the incredible visability of the -8, so it seems like a step backward when I fly a really blind airplane like my Hiperbipe. Also, as a bald guy, I do fly with a "do rag" rather than a ball cap... Works good if you can stand the fashion statement. :cool:
 
David-aviator said:
An IFR flight plan is no panacea. CAVOK requires the most vigilance, night with low vis and ceiling is much more comforting, the Cherokees are in their tepees.
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Yup! Remember that on an IFR plan ATC's first responsibility is keep you separated from other IFR traffic. As David said, the system works best when everyone is in the soup, operating IFR.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
-8 Field Of View (FOV)

The -8 cockpit Field Of View (FOV) is awesome and when the environment provides excellent VISIBILITY ample opportunity exists to avoid traffic visually. TIS is great too but only when in a service area. I like to fly at unique altitudes - pretty much everyone else is flying at nice round numbers like 2800 ft whereas I'll fly at 2755 or 2843. They only need to miss me by the merest fraction of an inch...
 
Ironflight said:
Louise and I were talking about this, and I told her how I am always surprised how much of a visibility-limiter a ball cap can be – especially in the -8! By necessity, us balding types have to wear something to keep the cancer risk low when flying under a bubble canopy in the sunshine, but on occasion, I like to take the hat off and TRULY enjoy the bubble canopy of the -8 while flying aerobatics – I do this mostly when there is a high overcast to give me some protection. I have become spoiled with the -8’s bubble, and am surprised how much more limited the view can be when I fly the -6. (Getting into a Cessna is almost like going caving!)

I must admit that I get a little nervous when I see traffic/visibility discussions turn praise for TIS/TCAS/ADS-B, etc. Sure, they are good tools to have, but never forget that there is a LOT more traffic that isn’t shown on the “fish-finders”. Take a look at the number of private grass fields within a 100-mile radius of Houston, and guess how many have no-electrical-system Cubs based on them. Flight Following? Sure – but again, the controller only sees the stuff that is squawking – so there is no defense as good as looking out the windows!

As Louise pointed out, you need to know your airplane’s blind spots and move the airplane around to make sure you’re scanning the whole sky. Don’t sit there relying on the electronics to alert you to what’s out there. The new tools are only an enhancement if they don’t lead to relaxed vigilance of eyeballs out the windows. Remember that traffic systems were initially designed for IFR use by airliners….the logic behind them does not necessarily translate fully into the VFR GA world. Don’t’ fall into the trap of keeping your eyes on the screen to “see” the world around you – especially in high-density traffic areas!

Paul
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Good points Paul. Pilots tend to relax when they hear the words: Radar Contact. Not good! As already pointed out, for the most part, controllers give separation from other IFR traffic. When getting VFR flight following, controllers will only advise you as workload dictates. There is simply no substitute for see and avoid

For fast movers like the T-38, F-18, F16 etc, RV's are essentially stationary. We are sky litter to them like ultra lights are to us! That makes the need to clear behind as well as ahead important.

Louise's statement to know your blind spots is right on!
 
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RV8R999 said:
The -8 cockpit Field Of View (FOV) is awesome and when the environment provides excellent VISIBILITY ample opportunity exists to avoid traffic visually. TIS is great too but only when in a service area. I like to fly at unique altitudes - pretty much everyone else is flying at nice round numbers like 2800 ft whereas I'll fly at 2755 or 2843. They only need to miss me by the merest fraction of an inch...
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Don't kid yourself too much that I'm really at 2800 and good enough to keep it there constantly, or that my altimeter is set to be the same as yours..... But I understand your point.

cheers,
greg
 
Backward Baseball Caps, "Do" Rags, etc.

When you guys were talking about baseball caps turned backwards, "do" rags, and flying in high overcast to reduce cancer risk, etc., I remembered that almost every sailplane pilot I've seen wears a "bucket" hat, or some type of floppy hat.

Just wondering how many of us fly with some type of floppy hat. I have one, but find it difficult to wear if I'm wearing headsets rather than my QT Halo's.
 
Bucket hat for me! Wait ... I am a glider pilot ... ;)

In fact my former German club requires every member to wear a hat of some kind that doesn't compromise visibility. Anybody closing the canopy without a hat will buy the beer in the evening, even in overcast weather.
 
VAF Bucket Hat

HEY DOUG!
We need a VAF Bucket Hat in your catalog! Reckon you and Avery can come up with one?

Anybody want to design one? How much would it cost in NOMEX? :eek:
 
Kind of surprising how often airplanes don't bother to turn their transponders on. Nowadays I put mine on at run-up, and have called other aircraft in the pattern to request that they put theirs on.

It's sure helpful to have that gadget! And as has been pointed out, it's sure interesting how many aircraft are flying in stealth mode.

Dave
 
rv7boy said:
HEY DOUG!
We need a VAF Bucket Hat in your catalog! Reckon you and Avery can come up with one?

Anybody want to design one? How much would it cost in NOMEX? :eek:
Click to expand...

I think in the US the glider hat he is referring to is called a fisherman's hat...:)

The SSA official one -

SsaLogo_LG.jpg
 
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