GEM930

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I'm hoping the vast knowledge on this forum will be able to help me figure out a climb problem I seem to be having.
First a little history. I have a 6a with an 0320 (H2AD). I purchased the plane flying and at the time it had the duel mag/single drive (2000 series) setup with a carb. At my first condition inspection the A&P recommended losing the 2000 series mag and finding a 3000. I priced that and decided to go with electronic ignition instead. While researching the ignition I stumbled across Tracy Crooks rotary aviation site - Real World Solutions and found out he was making an ignition / fuel injection system for Lyc / Cont now (EC3). I was familiar with Tracy as I was considering a rotary in another plane years ago. In fact, I actually put down a deposit on a system. When I decided not to go that route Tracy was perfectly willing to refund my deposit, but since he was so very helpful with answering all my questions (and there were a lot) I told him to to just keep the $. He stated he would keep it on file and if I ever wanted a unit I could apply it to that. He really is a great guy. Anyway, to make a long story short this seemed like a great way to go, and I had already paid for part of it. The system controls the mixture automatically (after it is tuned) but has a potentiometer to allow the pilot make manual changes as well. I have got the system tuned and running pretty well. My cruse speed seems to have increased a little, but my climb has plummeted. My max static RPM is 2300-2350 (used to be a solid 2350) and my RPM after rotation actually goes down to around 2200-2250 RPM and stays there through out the climb. Once I level off the rpm increases and as I said earlier my cruse speed seems to be better than it was before. I'm only able to do 600-700 ft/min at 100 kts., before I could hit 1200 ft/min at 120 kts. I suspect the timing as I have manually adjusted the mixture during climb and can very the mixture from running rough rich to running rough lean and my RPM never gets above 2250. The timing on the unit automatically advances under lighter loads and remains at base (25degrees BTDC) during higher loads (like climb). I'm thinking I may have got the base timing wrong (too retarded) and the only time I get full full advance is under lighter loads. Does this seem to make sense? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sounds like you are on the right track with the timing. The base timing may be too low. I'd double check that before doing anything with the mixture system.
 
1st, share photos & installation details :)

A common problem for some of the rotary guys using Tracy's system has been setting the static timing point in the wrong place. If you set it at TDC, actual timing will be very late. Is your static timing set at the recommended number of degrees before top dead center (probably ~30 degrees BTDC)?

A clue for late timing would be higher than normal EGTs.

When you get the symptom of going from rich-rough to lean-rough, is that on the ground or in the air at normal climb airspeed? Others have had problems because the system can't be tuned on the ground at the same loads the engine sees in the air.

Do you have Tracy's engine monitor? It will show 'holes' in the tuning map that can cause problems. If you don't have the monitor, but you do have a windows PDA or laptop, you can see similar (sometimes more) data using Steve Boese's (free) software at:
http://www.rotarycopilot.com/pc-software/
Steve is a really sharp guy; he's actually found software glitches that Tracy later corrected.

For potential additional help, there's now a Yahoo group for the system, if you're interested.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EC3_RWS/

How about sharing your installation photos & notes? There aren't that many flying this system on a/c engines, & putting your experiences out there could help others with their installations. It has the potential to be a very affordable path to electronic engine control on Lycs & Conts.

Charlie
 
The manual is a little hard to understand when it comes to setting the base timing. Probably because there are several different triggers that can be used (Tracy does not provide one). I set it initially and checked it using a timing light with the engine running at max static on the ground. Took a few times to get it right, but I thought it had it - 25 degrees advanced at max static RPM (2300-2350). I'm hoping I somehow messed it up, however, because if that is not the problem I'm not sure what else to do. There is no way the climb RPM should be lower than the static, is there???
As far as the adjustment of the mixture goes, it was not a symptom of a problem. I was manually changing the mixture from too rich (rough running) to too lean (rough running) in order to see if there was a spot in between that the RPM / climb would improve.

I do have a couple of mixture questions (Peak rpm vs. peak EGT, vs. peak power), but will wait to post them until I get the climb rpm problem worked out.
I will take some pictures of the install when I remove the cowling to check the timing and post them if you like.
 
There is no way the climb RPM should be lower than the static, is there???

I have seen this with some high pitched fixed pitch props. Some times a portion of the blades is actually stalled or has flow separation because of the very high angle of attack with no fwd motion. Once there is relative flow coming through the prop it begins to bit more and the RPM drops. Usually once you have left the ground and started the initial climb the RPM is back up to what static was.

If you are using the same prop as you were previously, and it didn't do this before the engine accessory change, I think you probably have a power output problem.
 
Same prop....

"A clue for late timing would be higher than normal EGTs."

My EGTs are around 1400. Does not seem too bad.
 
Same prop....

"A clue for late timing would be higher than normal EGTs."

My EGTs are around 1400. Does not seem too bad.

1400 F is high when compared to a standard carbed induction with the mixture set at full rich for takeoff.
 
OH.... Not sure I've looked at it during the climb. 1400 was when I was tuning for peak at cruse. Hopefully I will be able to pull the cowl off tonight and double check the timing.
 
Well, I checked it with a light and found it was 5 degrees retarded. Bumped it up 5 degrees and will fly in a little bit. I'll report back.
 
And more info....

Well timing was off 5 degrees. In order to check it I had to hang over the engine plenum while the prop was turning at 2300 RPM that was FUN!!! Tracy recommended just advancing it during the climb and see if things improved. He cautioned me to immediately back it off if the engine ran rough. I was too worried about damaging something so I opted to risk my life hanging on the engine instead. During the first climb out the engine seemed a little stronger, but the climb rpm was still lower. I did advance the timing 1 degree and it seemed to pickup up 10 or 20 RPM. I advance it another degree with no change, so I retarded it back down one.
During the time the EFI was being installed I used the opportunity to also update my avionics to a glass panel (MGL Voyager). I started thinking that perhaps nothing has changed except what my instruments are telling me. Perhaps my old VSI was just overly enthusiastic about its readings. I'm not sure I ever looked at the RPM during climb and the climb VSI indicated well. I have double checked the Altimeter on the Voyager and I did several timed climbs and came up with the following information. The Voyager actually has a "black box" and will graph almost anything it displays (ALT, ASI, OAT,EGT, CHT, etc...) I wish I was more computer savvy... I would post a screen capture of the graphs, but I cant figure out how to capture the screen view and even if I did I have never been able to post pictures anyway.

Also in reference the earlier post about EGTs the graphs did tell me that my EGTs, at least on the #4, are around 1450 during climb. Interesting the # 1,2,and 3 cylinders are a couple hundred degrees lower, but at some point a few minutes in the climb those three spike to around 1350 and the #4 comes down and meets them. Lasts a few seconds and then goes back. Weird!

Anyway, here are my climb numbers.

104 kts/120mph 850 fmp 77f/25c 1580 LBS

126 kts/145mph 625 fpm 91f/33c 1580 LBS

96 kts / 110mph 825 fpm 93f/34c 1515 LBS