aviationgeek84

aviationgeek84

Well Known Member
Hey Everyone,

I had thought for many months that the RV7 was the airplane for me... but then I flew in the RV8 this weekend. :p Wow - what a view (like the tandem seating) and performance was pure RV.

So... now it's got me thinking - what would the differences be in choosing the RV8 over the -7? I have read that the fuselage requires some jigging during the build and the -7 I believe is all matched-hole.

Being a first-time builder, what are your thoughts? Just want to know if there are any surprises I am not considering. :)

Thanks!
Casey
 
The 8 is the cream of the crop :D but I guess I'm a little bias. You will enjoy any RV you decide to go with and no fuse jig required on the newer matched hole kits.
 
The only "jig" you need to build an advanced -8 kit is a flat surface. I used the packing crate it came in.

72tzz6.jpg


The only surprise in store for you the huge difference between what you *thought* it would cost to build an airplane and what the actual cost turns out to be. I'm sure you'll become well versed in what "cost overrun" really means.
 
Haha... yeah... I think I'm just getting mentally prepared for not even trying to keep it "under budget" because... well, what budget? :p

Anyway.. good to hear about the jigs. I wondered if they had improved those - I read about the possible jig needed in the older Van's brochures, so that must all be in the past.
 
Casey,

The RV-8 is a matched-hole kit, and it's built the same way as a -7. You might be thinking of the older empennage kits that required you to build a jig, but now even the tail can be built on a table. The only framework needed to support the fuselage as you build is a table, but that's just to support the components until the skin goes on. The -8 and the -7 are very, very similar. The wings are actually identical. Here are a couple of differences, off the top of my head, for your consideration:

The RV-8 has much more shoulder room for the front-seater. This is a big deal if you have wide shoulders and so does your passenger.

The RV-7 has more space on, and behind, the instrument panel. In the RV-8, a full panel of goodies will challenge your ability to fit it all in.

An RV-8 fuselage, in the "canoe" stage and mounted in a rotisserie, is super easy to work on. Because the fuselage is so narrow, you can reach the entire cockpit interior while sitting on a stool.

The RV-7 has the option of either a tip-up or sliding canopy. The RV-8 is a slider only.

The RV-8 has no cross-cockpit visibility issues. The view is stupendous all around, as you found out when you took a ride.

If you will have a regular back-seater (spouse, etc.), you must consider NOW whether they mind a). looking at the back of your head inflight, and b). being sort of alone in their own cockpit. Some people don't mind it, but some people get lonely back there. An RV-8 also means your passenger is a little less engaged with you in the operation of the airplane. This could be a negative or a positive, depending on your view... ;)

The RV-8 has no provision for rear-seat brakes, so if you'll be needing tailwheel instruction, few if any instructors will be willing to provide it in an RV-8. The RV-7 is usually fitted with full dual controls.

I'm sure a lot more will pop into my head later, but that's a start...

You'll love either airplane.
 
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Back seat can be COLD

I'm a tandem airplane purist, so am very biased toward the 8. I'll only add one other thought to what Buck put up, and that's getting heat to the back seat of the 8.

Van makes absolutely no provision for this, to my dismay. And being so far away from the firewall, it gets cold back there. The back seat also tends to be a little drafty, but I think that can be addressed in the build if you're careful. The SBS airplanes make this a total non-issue.

I nearly froze my wife to death one night coming back from C-Springs, in January, wanting to hook a nice tailwind up high. I'm *hoping* my new 8 is alot better, but I still don't have a real good answer to getting heat back there.

One consideration... but it IS a great airplane!
 
Thanks for the additional thoughts. I won't be needing any tailwheel instruction in the airplane, but will need a check-out of course. I already instruct in tailwheel...

I did read that you can put throttle and rudder pedals in for the back seat, so that would probably be good to do for giving other pilots rides, etc.

Interesting thoughts on the temperature control in the back seat. We're in Iowa, so that might be a consideration... but perhaps not a deal-breaker. Have you found any way to help remedy that?

- Casey
 
Where are you based Casey?

I'm in Iowa as well. Based in Muscatine. There is a nice -7A here and many of my friends are out of Cedar Rapids. Some nice -8's flying around in Iowa...

Old Crow is out of Dubuque.

I was just at a flying this weekend and there were several -7A, -8A, -9A, -6A, -8, and a Texan (yeah I know that's not an RV but super cool.

Anyway - I think the team said the key points to consider for an -8 vs. -7.
 
Hey Mike!
I'm in Cedar Rapids. Just moved down here - I'm originally from Manchester, IA.

The -8 I flew in this weekend was part of an airshow up at Independence - was able to ask him several questions as well.


One other question I had on the -8 was some discussion about a tail buffet issue when stalling the -8. Does anyone have any information or ideas on this? I guess that doesn't really bother me - many have said it doesn't cause any control issues or anything. Just read about this last night, so kind of "green" on the subject.

- Casey
 
Buck hit most of the pros and cons in post #5 but I'd add that in the 7 you can access the baggage compartment during flight. This makes pre-flight planning a must in an 8.

If you will have a regular back-seater (spouse, etc.), you must consider NOW whether they mind a). looking at the back of your head inflight, and b). being sort of alone in their own cockpit. Some people don't mind it, but some people get lonely back there. An RV-8 also means your passenger is a little less engaged with you in the operation of the airplane. This could be a negative or a positive, depending on your view...
Click to expand...

This was the deciding factor "for me". I like to share my love of flying and side by side seating allows the passenger to take part. They can see the instruments, help with frequency changes, do chart work and you can have a face to face conversation. Someone once said to me that a passenger in a tandem airplane is not much more than baggage. I plan to make it possible for the pilot in command to fly from the left or right seat.

But....if you like to fly solo, the 8 is a great airplane.
 
Casey, getting heat into the back *is* possible, but not easy if its hot air you're trying to pipe back there. It can be done with PVC, small SCAT hose, etc. The routing takes it under the front seat, or through the control column opening in the wing spar carry through. Either way, there's not enough room to get something like 1.5" diameter plumbing in there.

The other option some here have used, I think with success, are electrically heated seats. Search the site for threads on that subject, or for "rear seat heat" etc.
 
8 vs 7

Having owned many different planes, were looking for fast transportation and looked at 8. I think the 8 is the best looking of Vans planes, but wife absolutely said NO. We have champ and stearman, but even thou they are tandem, she has 'her own' cockpit. In 8 the pilots seat is really in the backseaters lap--almost. Her legs extended up by the side of pilots seat (fun for grabbing) but since she's tall, she doesn't have much wiggle room. I'm big and really liked the 8, but ended up getting 7. Wife won that one. She also likes to help when flying and SBS makes it easier for her to be part of the team via navigation, EFIS switching etc. (later on she found out i'm too big to be sitting next to her in the 7 and we now have -10) If you are going to fly alone, the 8 is great. Better make sure the heat issue is resolved--most women won't fly much if they know they are going to be cold!!!! IMHO larry
 
Michael Stewart has back seat heat..

...in his -8. Check his website. It gets very cold in Georgia too.

If you have a significant "other", put her in the back seat before you go ordering anything because it can easily come to a lot of grief if she, like my wife, feels like she's sitting in a hole back there and she doesn't like staring at the back of my head. Quite a few guys have had to get rid of their -4's and -8's for that reason, or ride alone or get divorced.

Regards,
 
Yeah, Tanya is already sure she isn't riding in the back of the -8 for any flights longer than an hour or so. We're both ok with that. She can fly her own darn airplane if we want to take us both and the -8 very far. Then we can carry twice the baggage. You may see our Vans "light twin" flying often sometime in the next three to five years.
 
Hey Casey !!
Way to go the 8 is the finest of the fleet you won't regret it:D As far as the wife girlfriend goes I for one have a wife that loves the back of the 8 she likes her own space and being able to see both side easy. She has no interest in the navigating or actual flying, (she actually wants a T-6..yes I am that lucky)
All the Best to you!!
 
RCI

You a Rockwell Guy? I am and so are several of the builders on this site and out of Cedar.

Was the -8 you flew in an -8A painted like an Air force Texan? That's Marks Plane...
 
Not Rockwell, here... but familiar with them for sure.

Mark was definitely at the airshow. The RV-8 I flew in was from Wisconsin, though. Bill Cowden was his name. VERY nice airplane.
 
Just a small push for the 7

Disclosure..I built a 7a

Its easier to fly the 7/7a in IMC..there is a bigger panel and you have a working surface (seat) next to you to put stuff on...Sometimes that seat has a body in it to hand you stuff when you need it..:)

There are more experienced instrument pilots than me with superb organisational skills that fly RV 8's in IMC..And now I wouldn't be so intimidated about doing so..But for a beginning Instrument pilot at least the 7/7a is the way to go IMHO.

Frank
 
Frank & All,

Thank you for the insights. I love the looks and the tandem seating of the -8 and my wife assures me that it won't be a problem. I do worry about the backseat temperature (we're in Iowa). I don't think I will do my IFR flying as my wife isn't a huge fan of that.

Does anyone know of a -8 in Iowa that I can have her sit in and see what she thinks? I'm told "Old Crow" is based up in Dubuque - not sure if its owner is on the forums or not? :) Also, I think there may be one based around Cedar Rapids... just not sure of the owner. :)

Thanks again to everyone.

- Casey
 
aviationgeek84 said:
...Interesting thoughts on the temperature control in the back seat. We're in Iowa, so that might be a consideration... but perhaps not a deal-breaker. Have you found any way to help remedy that?

- Casey
Click to expand...

We put outlets for heated motorcycle vests in our 8A. Keep the torso warm, and the rest of the body stays warm too. (Except for the passenger's right foot anyway :rolleyes:). We chose heated vests over heated seats because: A) we already have heated vests. B) With heated seats you have to carry the extra weight and complexity around with you. With a heated vest, it's only there when you need it.

Guy
 
Flying from the back seat and heating options.

With respect to keeping the wife happy while owning an '8', what about putting her in the front some of the time and flying from the back? I know Vans don't have a rear brakes option for the RV8, but has anyone done this? Some RV4 and Rocket guys have full dual for the back seat.

Over on the Super Cub site (www.supercub.org) a while back they were talking about electrically heated seats. They seemed to be on to some aftermarket automotive ones. (What happened to men of steel and wooden aeroplanes?). Steve Sampson, an RV4 builder, utilised salvaged seat heaters from a Mercedes. The heated seat thing seems to be the best option to me and removes all worry of introducing CO to the cockpit. Glider pilots have electrically heated boots as well. During my Tiger Moth time I remember getting mighty cold toes at times.

Would be interested in input on decent dual controls for the rear seat though.

cheers,
Andrew.
 
As I understand it, you can easily put a throttle and rudder pedals in for the back seat, right? Of course, the stick is back there... brakes would be the only other thing I would REALLY want, I suppose.
 
RV-8 / 8A sticks

Although the 8 series is a fine machine, the front control stick seems to be a unplanned afterthought as if Van had finished the design and suddenly realized he forgot the stick! Folks bend them, cut them off, extend them, etc trying to improve them.

Now I must say that it may be a size thing. I'm 5'6", but none of the other 60-70 light plane types, USAF birds, and corporate jets and airliners I've flown were ever an issue.

For me, a spin recovery in the 8 has me holding onto the top of the stick and my right shoulder forward to get my arm extended.

So, for big guys, no sweat. But, if you are a small/short guy, the other RV's are much more comfy.

Just one man's opinion!
 
Although the 8 series is a fine machine, the front control stick seems to be a unplanned afterthought as if Van had finished the design and suddenly realized he forgot the stick! Folks bend them, cut them off, extend them, etc trying to improve them.
Click to expand...

Anyone else have a thought on this? I guess I didn't notice because I was in the back seat for my ride.

- Casey
 
Yes, the front stick seems to be somewhat short and in a bit of an awkward position, but mine is stock and works okay. I'm just a hair under 6 ft tall with fairly long arms, so it works out okay... someone a bit shorter might find the stick position not quite usable. One funny thing about the geometry of the stick and hand grip, the stick grip ends up between somewhat low between your knees so that you can't get a handful of the stick grip (mine's wood); gotta use fingertips at the top of the stick. Weird, but usable.
 
Regarding electric seat heaters

Back when I was first building I thought electric seat heaters would be a really cool (OK, hot) option. After all, I?ve always liked them in my cars.

The issue was being discussed on this forum and someone (I don?t remember who) mentioned that they were out driving on a cold winter day, with their seat heaters on. All of a sudden the seat got very hot and he looked down to find out the seat was on fire. :eek:

Quickly pulling over, and getting out (he wasn?t seriously burned), he stood by and watched as his car burned. :(

Right after reading that story I stopped thinking about installing seat heaters in my RV.
 
Not to hijack this thread----at least not too much:D----

The seat heaters I installed in my 10 have a thermal safety cutoff in the seat element, and a fuse in the supplied wiring harness. In addition, I am hooking them to another fuse protected circuit-------and the seat materials are FAA rated for fire/flammability.

Granted that none of this guarantees I will never have a seat fire, but I am happy with the odds.

YMMV
 
Do the Math

Something many people do not take into account when considering whether to get tandem or side by side, or two vs four seaters in fact, is the number of times you actually HAVE someone in the plane with you. We all seem to plan for a crowd, yet I'd bet the vast majority of pilots fly alone 80% of the time, if not more.

Can't tell you how many stories I have of people who buy four seaters thinking they are going to travel all over with family and that they "need the extra seats"...only to sell the thing in a few years because most of their flying is solo. Betting if you fly 100 hours a year, only a 1/4 of that will have a passenger on board.

So do the math. Look back over your prior experience, leave off the rose colored glasses where future "hopes" are concerned, and pick a model based on what really happens 80% of the time.

It could go either way depending on your experience...but if you are one of those guys that often finds himself alone then to heck with what the PIPS thinks. The Pain in the Passenger Seat. God love em all, and its nice when they can help out with flight chores...but if you fly alone most of the time, why even bother with side-by-side?

SO. If you NEED a panel crammed full of stuff, then the 7 makes a load of sense, reguardless of passenger concerns. But if you are more Sport Pilot then Airline Pilot, the 8 is the best game in RV town, again, in spite of passenger concerns, because often you may be alone.

Having flown in more than my share of cramed, shoulder crushing, Side-by-sides over the years, I gladly give up panel space for wide and roomy center line seating and 360 degree vistas. If the passenger whines about lack of things to do, buy 'em a digital camera. My wife just about burns out hers every time we fly.
 
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wera710 said:
We all seem to plan for a crowd, yet I'd bet the vast majority of pilots fly alone 80% of the time, if not more.
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Strange.......... at least to me.

Around here, the majority of pilots I know fly with a passenger/ spouse/ or other pilot. I know I do! Quite frankly, I get bored flying by myself. Flying cost's money, and I prefer sharing the excellent mountain scenery that we have around here with someone else.

And as I said, I'm not speaking for myself. It's just a fact of life, that a lot of pilots around here seldom fly solo. In fact, many times, even us pilots fly together. Share the fuel cost.............and be glad we have dual brakes. :D

L.Adamson ---- RV6A (flying)
 
Wish it was like that here, where it is often hard to find passengers at the drop of a hat. Most everyone has their own plane so we end up with a lot of solo flights all going somewhere. Personally, I WANT someone in the passenger seat as well. Like you, I get bored alone. Kind of sad. lol. Are we THAT Jaded?

Not the point however. Just saying that before choosing a either side-by-side or tandem, its smart to really give some thought to your personal reality and do the math. Can't much go wrong with either plane...but if most of your time is solo, then why bother with the side-by unless you need panel space? On the other hand, if you need a boat load of gizmos, then the tandem is not ideal. Either way, letting the passenger deside is not ideal. It may keep the peace but if they only fly occasonally, you are stuck with their choice, not your own.
 
Has anyone experimented with putting more to look at in the rear for the pax back there? I was thinking even a decent handheld GPS would be nice for my wife to keep track of things as she wishes on a trip...
 
aviationgeek84 said:
Has anyone experimented with putting more to look at in the rear for the pax back there? I was thinking even a decent handheld GPS would be nice for my wife to keep track of things as she wishes on a trip...
Click to expand...

Sure - I have a 396 in the back seat for Louise when we are two-up and take the -8. People have built more elaborate back seat panels, but it definiteley cuts into pasenger space!

Paul
 
Paul,

Yes - I think just a GPS would be great for most passengers... gives them something to watch and play with if they'd like. I don't think my wife would be interested in much more anyway. ;)
 
RV8

When I started my -8 in March 2007 there were about 100 more -7's completed than -8's. I had flown tandems only for a while (Stearman, T6, Super Cub, Decathlon) but thought the -7 was probably the way to go because of the popularity. I called up Van's and ordered a -7. I went a few days with a knot in my stomach thinking about my decision. I called Van's up and ask about changing my order to an -8. They told me that they had an -8 QB ready to ship now so I didn't hesitate with the order change. While I was changing my order, the nice lady on the phone starting telling me that I shouldn't change my order because the -7 kit was going to be I think if I remember correctly #3000 -7 kit shipped and they were planning to make a big deal about it being a milestone. I went ahead with the -8 kit and now have 115 hours on my new -8. Was it the wrong decision? I don't know but I haven't regretted it not even a little bit yet. Choose your RV wisely but don't expect to be disappointed with whatever you choose. These are fine aircraft and only leave something to be desired from the most demanding pilot. By the way, now there are more -8's flying than -7's. I guess some people are smart, but some are smarter. :D
IMG_0993.JPG
 
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True - I have decided that you can't really go wrong with any of the RVs. I guess this is worth considering... all of these airplanes are well-designed and have great flying characteristics.

I think I'm leaning -8, though... just has the "feel" I'm looking for. :)
 
RV-8 Preview Plans ordered tonight

Slightly off topic, but here's my status update on the RV-8 decision:

Well, after many months of looking at Barnstormers (first all aerobatic aircraft and then settled on RV, then on tandem-RVs), I found this forum and began reading.

Through VAF, I found a fellow F-15E flight surgeon (FMF15E) whose phrase describing his build: "the most rewarding experience of my life," was the single greatest motivation toward building (vs. buying.)

So now I've completed the Vans info pack/dvd, the Wanttaja Kit Airplane Construction and so just tonight I ordered my Preview Plans and Bourne's "RV Builder Basics" DVD.

My wife and family are still not convinced that I'm not out of my mind for even considering the idea of building. I'm sure the RC model trainer that I started in 1998 and is still unfinished has a lot to do with their impression. But I'm personally convinced that flying an RC model really has no appeal to me and there was therefore no true motivation for me to finish.

So my next step is to prove to myself that I can devote the time to the project. I'll use getting the garage cleaned out, insulated, adequately lighted and air-conditioned as my "starter project." (My 18-year old son scoffs, "yeah dad, cleaning and insulating the garage, that's equivalent to building an RV.")

After the garage --> workshop conversion, a trip to Alexander's or Synergy will be in order. One project at a time...


Troy Millican
CFI, Senior AME
RV-builder-to-be??
 
Welcome to VAF!!!!

Troy, good decision joining "The Force"

You came to the right place, that is for sure.

Good to have you aboard:D

Check your Private Messages.
 
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Welcome, Troy...

There's a fellow MD in Waycross, Ga. that I gave transition training to and he said that when he first started, "These hands can do anything", since he was/is a surgeon. He later said, boy what a challenge building this -9A was, but we got her done.

Congratulations on your decision and again, welcome ,
Pierre
 
Fastback

Hey Everyone,

I've been doing a lot of research on the -8 and have become somewhat interested in the fastback option for the -8. Can anyone speak to how this would work for a new builder? Is it more difficult? Easier? I've read/heard both stories.

Thanks!
 
If your are doing a slow built, little difference in overall work needed----at least for the Show Planes unit------more fiberglass though, and some folks have this strange phobia about fiberglass.

If you are doing a QB, there are some things you must take apart, remove, discard, so as to get the fast back parts in. This will eat up a bit of time, but you will still be ahead of the game time wise over a slow build.

Good luck.
 
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