DevDad

DevDad

Well Known Member
Hi, everyone. I'm curious to get a realistic view of expenses for building an RV-10 by asking those of you who are willing to share your experience. For my situation:

For a few years, I have been planning to get started on an RV-7/7a when the finance factor allowed for it. At this point, it allows for an RV-7, but the recent addition of a baby (who is now 18 mos) changes the situation, and makes an RV-10 more necessary. While this may seem like an obvious question, I am trying to determine whether or not it makes sense to just wait (****, I've waited this long), and build the RV-10 when it's possible, or just go for the RV-7.

So, I'd love to see actual expenses for specific equipment of the flying or almost flying RV-10's out there, or perhaps a line of thinking for those of you with younger children. If you have kids, how did it affect your model choice? If you chose the RV-10 because of the kid(s), was the financial part an issue?

Obviously, it's a personal decision, but I'd love to see how you guys made your decisions.

Thanks,
Mike
 
I'd also like to add, for those of you with kids who went with the two seaters, how seriously has it affected your ability to get out there and fly?

Mike
 
While I can't comment much on the specific questions you asked, I can add this much. My family has a Cherokee 180, which can handle the whole family on a cross country trip. Literally 99% of the flying we do has 2 people or less. It likely makes sense to build the -7, then rent a plane when you need more room. You will probably end up saving money, what with all the gas you'll save when you're out boring holes by yourself, on top of the initial lower investment.
 
DevDad said:
I'd also like to add, for those of you with kids who went with the two seaters, how seriously has it affected your ability to get out there and fly?

Mike
Click to expand...
The truth is that kids in the house is the major factor that seriously affect your ability to get out there and fly, and it also seriously affect your ability to get in the shop and build. An more often than not, at least one more kid is on it's way in a not so distant future (I asume from your post you only have one at the moment).

That being said, I have three boys in the age of 7 to 14. All three of them are interested in the building process, and all three are interrested in flying, but sitting for hours during a cross country trip is definitely not their idea of having fun :) A short trip half an hour or so doing some maneouvers even basic stuff as touch and goes are fun.

That is my experience, and therefore I am building the plane I want, the RV-4. Good enough for cross country with two, and aerobatics, and it is good looking. If my boys shows interrest, I will sponsor glider or hang glider lessons on them when they are 15.
 
Choosing a model...

I have a similar problem... in that I have the need for 3 seats, and at other times would like a bit more cargo room for bulky items. Unfortunately, the jump from the 7/9 models to the RV-10 is way more than my budget and free time can afford. :rolleyes: The only non-composite that is close is the CH-640... which doesn't stir my interest much. (nor others... as best I can tell there are only a handful out there).

The whole theory of "rent more seats when you need them" runs counter to the whole reason I am looking at kits. I currently rent well worn fleet 172's... and can say the fly like trucks. To say nothing of the comments from the wife at the cosmetics. (it is a bit hard to have full confidence in something that looks that worn!) I don't want to rent someone else's airplane.

SO... I have written Van's asking them to consider a "stretch-9". Van's version of a Tiger... with RV attributes! :) I think there is a market. In the interim, I am looking at an economical, simplistic, easy to build craft such as the RV-12 to hold me over until what I am looking for is available.

DJ
 
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Build the -7 and when you need more airplane start building the -10 and sell the -7 to finance the rest of the -10.
 
Build the 7 for you, and then find a few friends to go in on a 10. That way you can fly whenever you want, and still have the 4 seat option for when you need it.
 
Build the -7, rent the 4 seater when needed, until you can build the -10, and by that time your 18 month old will be 18 years old and he will want to fly the -7. Not to say you are a slow builder, it is just they grow up way to fast.
 
What worked for me

I seriouly considered building an RV4 in the mid-eighties but I put building on hold for twenty years to raise my family and to get into a more favorable financial and time situation. A young family takes a lot of time. Now I'm 2/3 through a 7A. During those early years I had a Cessna 205, 210, 195, and then, for the last 15 years, a PA-12. I'm telling you young guys all this because, in my experience, I really didn't need a big airplane to carry my family around in. We made a few trips to see the grandparents in the 210 but even in an IFR partially de-iced airplane you just can't count on getting anywhere at any particular time. You know what they say, "Time to spare? Go by air", and it is true. My 195 was destroyed in a flood when my oldest son was twelve, and I then realized that what I really needed was a trainer, hence the 12. I have rarely wished for a four place traveling airplane except at Oshkosh time. I did occasionally rent, but only a few times over those years, and not neccessarily to haul my kids around. I bought a share of a Bonanza but put only twenty hours on it in two years, so I sold my share. Just didn't need the capability of a Bonanza. (Nice airplane, though. But only a little faster than a 195 on about the same fuel flow. Nothing like pulling into town with a rumbling round engine. That's the airplane I miss the most. But I digress.)

Going on a trip as a family is just something we hardly ever did, and as I think of other young guys that had airplanes, I don't think they did, either. Having a big airplane to carry your whole family around in is one of those things that makes perfect sense but in actual practice, at least for me and those guys that I know, we just didn't use our airplanes that way very often. More commonly I would take one or two of the boys flying on a local trip, have lunch, etc, and get back home. Little kids don't like to fly that much anyway. An hour is plenty. They liked stopping for lunch or hot chocolate as much as the flying, as I recall. And teenagers? HA! Good luck with that. Really, building and flying is daddy's deal and if you can get one of your kids or maybe your wife to go with you once in a while that is probably closer to reality, at least in my experience.

As far as finances go, I will venture that a two place RV can be built for about half of what will be spent on a well equipped RV10. Operating costs will be about 75% higher on the RV10, as well.

All of this is by way of saying that, no, you probably will not suffer if you don't have a four place airplane. A two place will be plenty of airplane almost all of the time. Good luck on whatever you choose to do, and I hope I have helped some of you make a decision.
 
Which model?

My advice...build the RV7. Why? Well, I am now 65, retired, and have been flying since 1966 when small two place airplanes were relatively cheap and plentiful. I bought and rebuilt a Luscombe in 1968 which I happily flew for years with a family of 5 kids. I took them flying one at a time and, like stated earlier, one hour flights is all they wanted followed by a bottle of Coke. Since 1978 I flew a Cessna 170 (four place) and probably used the back seat maybe less than 20 times over the 30 years of ownership. The youngest is now 35 and my wife, who has her Private license, and I used the Cessna as a two place flyin breakfast machine mostly within a 150 mile radius. We now, since 2004, fly our RV6 in the same manner as the Cessna but with more range due to the speed. We have gone on trips with all of the planes on occasion and naturally the RV6 excells at cross country work and also in handling. Now, this does not help with your RV7/RV10 decision but it does say something about the 2 place/4 place decision. Our backseat was seldom used during all phases of raising a family. I have no desire to own a 4 place anything as it just is not justified with my type of flying. I hope this helps with your decision.

Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD 200 hrs.
RV8 tanks
Northfield, MN
 
When I had young kids, I never flew with my wife. I did not like the idea of having both parents in the same airplane in case of accident.

Once my kids were much older, it was ok. Sometimes I take one of them with me, but my wife only comes occassionally.

I wished I had a 4-seater exactly once on a long trip to a wedding.
I also fly a lot of formation without pax.

V
 
Everyone,

Thanks for the great replies. I suppose I've underestimated the travel factor. I had a few concerns when I decided recently that it is almost time to get started:

1) Sarah HATES commercial flying. It's not a time or inconvenience thing, it's a *fear* thing. So, I finally got her up for her own Discovery Flight, because she's never flown general aviation. It went well, but I expected it to be an "Awesome!" or "Get Me Down!" type of thing. It was neither. She enjoyed it, but it wasn't something that she'd want to do very often. You can check out the photos in the other thread.

2) Like for most of us, time. As of about 6 months ago, I work from home. My problem is that I turn 2-3 hours of daily work into 12, because I'm on forums, blogs, etc. My daughter is 18 months old, and I watch her while I work. Soon enough, she'll be off to pre-school, and I'll have some pretty serious time on my hands. So, time shouldn't be an issue. I'm thinking 10 hours per week would be possible immediately, and 20-30 hours per week being possible in about 24 months from now.

3) Another issue is, of course, money. While I'm sure I can swing the -7/7A, the thought of spending easily double for an RV-10 wasn't a happy one. So, I'm glad to hear the responses that I am hearing. I'm going to build a -7 or a -7A, because I like side-by-side seating, and I love what you can build for $60-80K!

You guys opened my eyes to a few things that I either haven't considered, or haven't done so very thoroughly, such as the two parents in one plane factor. That is definitely something to consider.

So, it'll be some sort of RV-7 for me. I'm just excited about being able to fly literally 3-4 hours each day, should I decide to. The benefits of working from home! I can't imagine what it'll be like when the kid goes to school. I'll need a new buddy!

Thanks again, guys.
Mike
 
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