GrayHawk

GrayHawk

Well Known Member
I tried several searches using a combination of different search terms, and did find one thread about bluetooth; which is not what I want.

This question is purely technical & without regard to any legalities:

Has anyone sucessfully integrated and used a cell phone in the cockpit intercom system? I realize you would need to be in the beam of the specific cell towers. I am mainly interested in what might have been used for a wired solution (not blue tooth). It would be nice to send voice or text in case a flight change is needed in the air.

Thanks
 
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There are connections that can be done with several intercoms. I am not an expert on that so I will let such said experts respond to that question. However, I do have headsets that have a patch cord that allows me to plug a cell phone directly into the headset cord. This allows me to then use the cell phone with the headset.

There should not be too much difference in using the intercom but, as I said, I will let the experts speak to that directly.
 
Yes, this has been done with many installations that used our field trail wireless intercom system (Sorry, we decided not to put this into production due to lack of resources).
Only issue ( a significant one ) is that cell phone reception is extremely poor at any kind of altitude as the towers concentrate their energy in the horizontal plane or beam downwards if they are elevated.
Once you are in the air you quickly realize just how spotty cell phone coverage realy is.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

GrayHawk said:
I tried several searches using a combination of different search terms, and did find one thread about bluetooth; which is not what I want.

This question is purely technical & without regard to any legalities:

Has anyone sucessfully integrated and used a cell phone in the cockpit intercom system? I realize you would need to be in the beam of the specific cell towers. I am mainly interested in what might have been used for a wired solution (not blue tooth). It would be nice to send voice ot text in case a flight change is needed in the air.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
GrayHawk said:
I tried several searches using a combination of different search terms, and did find one thread about bluetooth; which is not what I want.

This question is purely technical & without regard to any legalities:

Has anyone sucessfully integrated and used a cell phone in the cockpit intercom system? I realize you would need to be in the beam of the specific cell towers. I am mainly interested in what might have been used for a wired solution (not blue tooth). It would be nice to send voice ot text in case a flight change is needed in the air.

Thanks
Click to expand...

This question is getting more common. Up near Vancouver, where I'm from, it is becoming mandatory to use telephones to open and close flight plans and get transponder codes.

It looks like cell phones will become defacto standard equipment on our aircraft. I looked at a good way to integrate cell phones with existing audio systems, and there are several portable products available that work.

Unfortunately, the amount of cables and wiring associated is a bit of pain.

So I developed a product that can be hardwired to any existing aircraft audio system. It allows you to connect your cellphone/music phone and iPod pretty easily. See this link-- the AMX-2B.

As for in-flight usage, it depends on your location, speed, cellphone technology and ground station coverage. I have successfully used cellphones in flight.

Cellphones, by their nature, end up being location beacons as well. There are situations locally where crash sites have been located by examining cell site data. In fact, our local civililan SAR team recommends leaving cell phones ON in flight for this reason.

There was also a recent example where a commercial flight went down, the ELT did not operate, but a surviving passenger used text messaging to contact SAR! His big complaint, he got "Spam" messages from his carrier while guiding SAR to his location!

So, not only do cell phones work, they can be important communication and safety tools.

Vern
 
I have been a 12 volt installer for many years working on cars. Bluetooth is one of the coolest things in the world, (besides a field of rv's). Parrot makes a bluetooth handsfree kit with a 3 inch color screen for dialing and caller i.d. You can accese your full phone book from it. It is designed to interupt your car speakers while allowing the phone call to be heard while muting the radio. I was wondering being exp. aircraft, if this would be a good option for my airplane as well. The phone kit also has a audio output in the form of 2 wires+\-. Also as far as reception goes, Wilson makes cell phone boosters up to 6 watts. Thats alot because I believe a standard cell phone has an 1/3 watt of power. Anyboby have feedback? please pm me.
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

My thoughts as I was investigating this is, a satellite phone might work but a cell phone is questionable. This is due to the design of the cell tower network where the coverage is focused downwards and along the highways for car drivers. The counter argument is that it appears people were able to use cell phones to make reliable calls on airliners (Flight 93).

Another thought was that I would be just as happy to send a text mail to my daughters saying something like "Diverting into Alamosa for fuel due to storm over Raton". I was wondering if there was some way to expand my APRS system to allow me to send text email out in case of 'in-flight' contingencies?
 
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GrayHawk said:
Thanks for the responses so far.

My thoughts as I was investigating this is, a satellite phone might work but a cell phone is questionable. This is due to the design of the cell tower network where the coverage is focused downwards and along the highways for car drivers. The counter argument is that it appears people were able to use cell phones to make reliable calls on airliners (Flight 93).

Another thought was the I would be just as happy to send a text mail to my daughters saying something like "Diverting into Alamosa for fuel due to storm over Raton". I was wondering if there was some way to expand my APRS system to allow me to send text email out in case of 'in-flight' contingencies?
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Good timing for this thread!

Sending text messages is hit or miss for me. When blow the mount ridges, it seems to work fine but up high, not so much. It usually takes three or four resends before the message goes through.

I tend to txt msg people with our ETA while en route so they know when to pick us up.

With the questionable reliability of the cell network when at altitude, I have been reluctant to invest any $$$ on a solution.

This might be a simple solution to using your cell phone in the plane. Has anyone tried it?
 
David Clark X11 ANR headsets come with cables to connect to most cell phones as well as an Ipod cable.

That is the primary reason I bought the X11 instead of the Bose.
 
GrayHawk said:
Has anyone sucessfully integrated and used a cell phone in the cockpit intercom system?
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I have a small cable that connects the standard 2.5mm cell phone interface into my Lightspeed headset. It was free (with the headset). It works, sort of. Getting GSM-based systems to work from the air in flat terrain is a different matter, good luck with that.

You explicitly said to ignore legal matters, but from a practical sense, I feel that "active" cell phones are an uncecessary distraction in the cockpit and are hard to turn off when the ring and the wrong time. I can turn off aux audio inputs and terrain warnings from the GPS with a switch right next to the intercomm. However, good luck finding the cell phone in your pocket when it rings as you're trying to turn right base at an unfamiliar airport (or worse, your pax answers their phone when you're trying to figure out the location of the FUBAR intersection that Approch wants you to go to).

The first three items on the "Before Flight" section of my checklist:
"PREFLIGHT INSPECTION ... COMPLETE"
"CELL PHONES, DISTRACTIONS .... OFF"
"PASSENGER BRIEFING ... COMPLETE"

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
I have a small cable that connects the standard 2.5mm cell phone interface into my Lightspeed headset. It was free (with the headset). It works, sort of. Getting GSM-based systems to work from the air in flat terrain is a different matter, good luck with that.

You explicitly said to ignore legal matters, but from a practical sense, I feel that "active" cell phones are an uncecessary distraction in the cockpit and are hard to turn off when the ring and the wrong time. I can turn off aux audio inputs and terrain warnings from the GPS with a switch right next to the intercomm. However, good luck finding the cell phone in your pocket when it rings as you're trying to turn right base at an unfamiliar airport (or worse, your pax answers their phone when you're trying to figure out the location of the FUBAR intersection that Approch wants you to go to).

The first three items on the "Before Flight" section of my checklist:
"PREFLIGHT INSPECTION ... COMPLETE"
"CELL PHONES, DISTRACTIONS .... OFF"
"PASSENGER BRIEFING ... COMPLETE"

TODR
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I expected someone would say this, so I'll add information. I'm not a big cell phone fan either. I don't even answer mine most of the time when I have both feet planted on the ground. And when I'm in the air I WOULD NEVER answer an incoming call and if it were to ring in my ear I would punch the little button on the intercom that was mistakenly left in the on position to off. What I'm interested in is a way to communicate outwards when there is a change in plans due to weather or any other cause. This would reduce the anxiety level of daughters (& spouse if I had one).
 
Uses Up Batteries

You really go through charge when you leave your cell phone on while flying because it is hunting for coverage a lot which eats up the power. I have had a cell phone completely discharge in just a few hours of flying.

Hans
 
nucleus said:
You really go through charge when you leave your cell phone on while flying because it is hunting for coverage a lot which eats up the power. I have had a cell phone completely discharge in just a few hours of flying.

Hans
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What I was looking for was the plane version of a car kit; that is, a cradle or ? you snap your cell phone into, that provides external belly mount antenna, audio & mike connections, power, as well as battery charging. Now most US oriented cell comapnies won't have a car kit as it is still legal to drive & talk in the US, but something like a Nokia car kit might work. Call it a 'plane kit'.
 
My PMA 9000 has Bluetooth and interfaces very nicely with my iPhone. I am not flying yet, but expect to use this feature to make quick calls while on the ground.
 
GrayHawk said:
What I was looking for was the plane version of a car kit; that is, a cradle or ? you snap your cell phone into, that provides external belly mount antenna, audio & mike connections, power, as well as battery charging. Now most US oriented cell comapnies won't have a car kit as it is still legal to drive & talk in the US, but something like a Nokia car kit might work. Call it a 'plane kit'.
Click to expand...

Just buy a car one on ebay and mount it up!

Hans
 
jrouault said:
My PMA 9000 has Bluetooth and interfaces very nicely with my iPhone. I am not flying yet, but expect to use this feature to make quick calls while on the ground.
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Yes, would probably work if I were to accept bluetooth versus wired and had $2K to put into it. Not ready for either one. Maybe the text field in my APRS tracking system is the best solution.
 
nucleus said:
Just buy a car one on ebay and mount it up!

Hans
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That handles the interface part of my question but not the 'used sucessfully' part.

PS: & Unfortunately most car kits sold today do not allow use of an external antenna.
 
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I have a PMA8000B and it's just a matter of putting my phone in the cradle I made,and pluging in the patch cord. I cut the headphones off their cord and used the cord to connect to the PMA. My phone is right in front of me, and it's just a matter of disconnection an incoming call or turning it off altogether.You just talk thru the headset as any other communication. Been using it for over two years, never had it as a distraction. Just another button to push, along with all the others.
 
Ron B. said:
I have a PMA8000B and it's just a matter of putting my phone in the cradle I made,and pluging in the patch cord. I cut the headphones off their cord and used the cord to connect to the PMA. My phone is right in front of me, and it's just a matter of disconnection an incoming call or turning it off altogether.You just talk thru the headset as any other communication. Been using it for over two years, never had it as a distraction. Just another button to push, along with all the others.
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That's pretty close to what I was thinking, Ron. Thanks!

Does the cradle allow external antenna? I have an older Nokia phone & cradle that do allow external antenna.
 
Sky Phone?

There are differing opinions as to how well a cell phone will work in an aircraft. For many years I took a cell phone with me in a glider and it worked fine even at 10 or 12K. The one I have now doesn't up there at all. The difference, I believe, is my current phone, a Blackberry, is GSM only. I think GSM antennas are more focused straight out to the sides than the older systems. I've noticed when flying as a passenger in a corporate aircraft I get no signal until very close to the ground and my emails start flooding in. So as they say - YMMV - depending on the system your phone company uses.
 
I'm using a Nokia also and I don't have an external antenna. I've never seen an external antenna and don't know how it hooks up?
 
Ron B. said:
I'm using a Nokia also and I don't have an external antenna. I've never seen an external antenna and don't know how it hooks up?
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I think the external antenna capability depends on the phone and the mobile holder used. My origianal Nokia pnone had a car kit cradle with built in small coax connection for an external antenna. I took this through a window using a glass coupler, to a small GSM band stick on external antenna. On the phone itself the antenna connection is usually along the botton edge & may not look like a coaxial connection. It is mostly European phones that do this, due to the laws over there (use your hands for driving only).

large-AXF-15S.jpg


My current Nokia also has external antenna capability with a different holder and car (mobile) kit. In the plane case, I would take this connection to an external belly mount antenna, capable of the higher speeds.

But if the GSM service has little coverage up high as one person posted, won't work. Which is the reason for my original post.

PS: Here is a better view of one of the original Nokia car kits:

normal_cark91.jpg


For a plane implementation the hub unit gets replaced by the intercom, the microphone & speaker are the pilots headset. When the phone is snapped into the holder, 12VDC power is supplied for operation and battery charging, audio connections to intercom are made AND a small coax connection to an external antenna.

Now I know this must seem strange to all of us USA cell phone operators, that is, not holding the phone in your hand and up against your head....... :D

But think about it, hands free to drive (or fly), yes, you can drive a stick shift, and no radiation right up next to the gray matter. Lots of benefits.
 
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I heard a rumor that Steve Fosset had been texting some kids in the San Fernando Valley the day he went missing.
 
> cellphone ... the 'used sucessfully' part.

I like cheap & easy. In the airplane, I wear a std/corded cellphone headset
underneath my Bose ... the in-line mic is randomly stuffed into the Bose
earcup. The sidetone from the intercom is picked-up by the inline mic; ergo,
you have a perfectly normal cellphone conversation.

http://www.freeheadset.org
 
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