Greg Arehart

Greg Arehart

Well Known Member
Anyone know of a cheaper alternative to the remote heater switch offered by Judith technologies?

http://www.goflying.cc/

This seems a bit pricey for what's in it. Or, any of you electronic wizards out there have a schematic for building one?

greg
 
Greg, there is quite a bit in the archives about this. Various setups and services for remote actuation are available.

I prefer a thermostat on the end of a power cord, put into the oil door. Set it at 70F, blanket up the cowl and leave it on.
 
Alex,

Thanks, I have been through the archives, but am looking specifically for the cell phone (or beeper) activation rather than a timer or thermostat.

greg
 
andyrv said:
Nevermind. Discontinued.
Click to expand...

Actually, those X-10 phone-dialer controllers are still readily available on eBay. Do a search for "X-10 Touch Tone Phone Controller" and you'll find them. I believe the model number is the "PHC06".

I sometimes use one to start the heater in my workshop about an hour before I arrive.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I also found the Apogee kits site this afternoon and will probably order one of those. $15 is much less than $369 to do basically the same thing! I don't like the idea of leaving it plugged in all the time as the cost can add up (right now I don't pay the electric bill but would probably need to do so if I was using 300 watts 24/7). And the X10 thing won't work since there is not a landline to the hangar.

cheers,
greg
 
Greg Arehart said:
I don't like the idea of leaving it plugged in all the time as the cost can add up (right now I don't pay the electric bill but would probably need to do so if I was using 300 watts 24/7). And the X10 thing won't work since there is not a landline to the hangar.
Click to expand...

300 watts isn't a lot but if that's correct, the math is easy.

300 watts / 1000 = .3 KW per hour
.3kw x 24 hours x 30 Days = 216 KW per month

Electricity can cost anywhere between 5 to 15 cents per KW. So say roughly $0.10

216 x .1 = $21.60 per month if left on 24x7.
 
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Any downside to leaving an engine heater on 24/7?

Sam, would like to bounce a Q off of you and the gang.

Santa just gave one of the nice units in Greg's original post to a local RV buddy of Greg and I...probably had something to do with the thread, as we sort of covet his new toy ;).

We were all discussing the merits of different heating systems, and discussed just leaving an engine heater on 24/7.

I have two options on engine heaters. I bought a 1500W space heater and attached a small roof duct to it, then ran a dryer vent hose from it which, when needed, I put in the cowl air outlet by the exhaust pipes. I run it with blankets over the cowl to warm up the engine/oil on cold mornings. I also have a 100W heating pad that I may afix to the bottom of the oil pan.

In a local discussion, I asked about leaving either on full time, and one comment was that it could lead to condensation of water in the oil sump, and thus water in the oil...something along those lines.

Niether of these pre-heating methods was considered hot enough to carmelize, carbonize (or otherwise sludgefy...all very technical terms, ahem), but I'm interested in your opinion on the water issue.

I know I could keep the hangar at 55 degrees all the time and just keep the entire airplane warm, but that would get really expensive really fast, so I'm wondering if keeping an engine preheater left on all the time has any downsides, and if any preventative measures are needed to prevent them.

Thanks much for any insight!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Reiff system.....

.....is a great way to go, Bob. For around $200, you get two pads that attach under the oil pan and mine raises the oil temp to over 100 degrees in 10 hours with an OAT of 34F degrees or so.

With your schedule, wouldn't a timer work?

BTW, we installed the same system on a Cirrus with the IO-550 Conti and he loves it....no more dead batteries in cold wx.

Regards,
 
Continuous preheat

Here's what Bob Reiff says about leaving the heater on 24/7:

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/FAQ.htm#QA3

He recommends against it, unless you fly frequently.

On the other hand, our club planes are left plugged in continuously because the alternative (preheat by the FBO) is very expensive. So far as I know this has not caused any problems; the engines usually make it to (or beyond) TBO.
 
rvmills said:
Sam, would like to bounce a Q off of you and the gang.

Santa just gave one of the nice units in Greg's original post to a local RV buddy of Greg and I...probably had something to do with the thread, as we sort of covet his new toy ;).

We were all discussing the merits of different heating systems, and discussed just leaving an engine heater on 24/7.

I have two options on engine heaters. I bought a 1500W space heater and attached a small roof duct to it, then ran a dryer vent hose from it which, when needed, I put in the cowl air outlet by the exhaust pipes. I run it with blankets over the cowl to warm up the engine/oil on cold mornings. I also have a 100W heating pad that I may afix to the bottom of the oil pan.

In a local discussion, I asked about leaving either on full time, and one comment was that it could lead to condensation of water in the oil sump, and thus water in the oil...something along those lines.

Niether of these pre-heating methods was considered hot enough to carmelize, carbonize (or otherwise sludgefy...all very technical terms, ahem), but I'm interested in your opinion on the water issue.

I know I could keep the hangar at 55 degrees all the time and just keep the entire airplane warm, but that would get really expensive really fast, so I'm wondering if keeping an engine preheater left on all the time has any downsides, and if any preventative measures are needed to prevent them.

Thanks much for any insight!

Cheers,
Bob
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Bob,

The continuous use of engine heaters has been discussed at great length on this forum and others. Here is a recent thread that has quite a bit of info on this subject:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=24036&highlight=preheat

You can run a search using "preheat" and get a lot more threads.

Here are my thoughts on using a sump heater:

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html

This is a subject where you will get various strongly-held hangar opinions, but it has been my experience that the most vocal opinions are usually held by individuals with no personal experience with engine heaters. ;)
 
It all comes down to the amount of water in your oil. If you have very little, the "increased opportunity" for corrosion is non-existent. The way to have very little is to fly once a week and get your oil up over 180 dF, or live in the desert (in which case, you may not need the heater in the first place.)

In the winter when I used to house my airplane in an unheated hangar, I was like Sam, I kept it on 24 X 7. I flew every day the weather allowed so I had very little moisture build-up and I kept the top end oiled with my regular flights.
 
Thanks!

Thanks very much for the replies guys (and sorry for the thread hijack Greg!). My early GA flying (a while back) was in CA, and temps were rarely, if ever, an issue. Now that I'm in Reno, and back into GA (thanks to the RV!), I'm an old dog (well sort of), learning new tricks!!

Part of the issue for me is that I'm out of town often for work, and my RV flying schedule is irregular (would like to fly the RV at least once a week, but it doesn't always happen). I also volunteer for a Sheriff's SAR squadron, along with some other RVers (and others) who were discussing this topic locally, and occasionally a quick dispatch request is received. This brought us to the relative merits of full time heating vs. the phone-operated on/off systems.

Sam, your refs are great, and clarify a great deal (and I see the debate you refer to ;) Even the Reiff ref says in one section that 24/7 operation of a preheater is not recommended, then follows up with a ref to an Aviation Consumer report that appears to say that doing so does not appear to cause any condensation issues...if I'm reading and understanding it correctly).

Pierre, thanks for the lead on Reiff products as well, and for the others' refs and points on this subject.

I can see that for each situation, there are several things to consider. Local conditions of temp/humidity, hangar (or non-hangar) environment, power availability, personal schedule, etc.

One thing that seems to pop out is that cyclic heating (and cooling) without flying after heating may cause the condensation issue to rear it's head, but that may be fuel for more debate.

In our case in Reno, we get very cold, but ambient humidity is almost non-existent. I've never seen condensation on the dip-stick, with or without a heater (i.e., in warm or cold ambient conditions), before or after flight. Leads me to believe that 24/7 heating would not cause a condensation problem. However, the pad heater I have available does not appear to have a thermostat, so I need to look at the Reiff product that does, and then figure out how to run the chord with my plenum arrangement. Looks like proper sump exterior prep and bonding is a really imortant factor.

I really appreciate the discussion...learning a lot!

Cheers,
Bob
 
It just depends...

rvmills said:
I can see that for each situation, there are several things to consider. Local conditions of temp/humidity, hangar (or non-hangar) environment, power availability, personal schedule, etc.

One thing that seems to pop out is that cyclic heating (and cooling) without flying after heating may cause the condensation issue to rear it's head, but that may be fuel for more debate.
Cheers,
Bob
Click to expand...

Yep, the question of 24/7 engine heat is one that doesn't have a one-size-fits-all answer. Anyone pondering engine heaters should do their homework, and base their decision on their particular set of environmental and flight circumstances. Unfortunately it is time-consuming to cut through the myths and find good info but it can be done.
 
actual 24x7 experience

Our flying club 172 sat outside in NH - think cold and lots of snow. We had a Reiff system and we ran it 24x7 once the temp got near 40 (about October) until about April. The plane didn't actually fly all that much in the winter, because of the joys of snow removal, etc. Total usage per year was <200 hours.

We ran the engine (O-320-H2AD) to TBO+400... tore it down when the cam got worn down. No corrosion at all.

My Skipper has a Reiff, it runs full time. When I open the cowl to unplug it, the air inside is very warm, way way above the dewpoint. The whole engine is toasty, even in a 0F unheated hangar.

My RV will have the same system unless I move somewhere warm.
 
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I built one based on this kit

Kyle Boatright said:
Here's a $15 option (plus cell phone);

http://www.apogeekits.com/remote_control_via_cell_phone.htm
Click to expand...

There are other considerations. It is a good solution, but not a complete solution. You need other stuff plus an enclosure to put it all in, plus some of your own time to make it all work.

Be advised that the logic on this board is only rated for 24V so if you want to control a 120V heater you will need an interposing relay . I recently built this kit and use it to control a 10A electromechanical relay with a 12VDC control coil. I mounted it in a Vyncier fibeglass enclose. Also mounted in the box is a 12VDC power suppy to power the logic circuit and relay control. I also mounted the cell phone and it's charger. Mine is set up like a remote control extension chord. I cut an extension chord in half and wired each end to the terminal strip in the box. I bought the enclosure and relay from a local automation store. I used a AT&T go phone. AT&T has a $25 service with minutes that expire every 3 months. There is a dip switch setting that will turn the circuit on with two calls in the same minute, and turn it off with a single call. This way a timer is not needed.
I have it powering my Rieff oil pan preheater and it really works great.

Parts cost are as follows

Remote control kit : $15
Vyncier enclosure : $65
Relay: $7
Extension chord :$15
Terminal Strip : free from my junk bin
Cell phone - 25 plus service charges of 25 per quarter

BTW, like Sam and others have said, it might not be needed, but it was a fun project to put this all together and get it working. It also has a high coolness factor to call your plane and get it warmed up.
 
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