N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
This just in:

Precision Airmotive said:
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/pr-carbdiscon.htm
November 1, 2007

Precision Airmotive LLC has discontinued sales of all float carburetors and component parts as of November 1, 2007. This unfortunate situation is a result of our inability to obtain product liability insurance for the product line. Precision Airmotive LLC and its 43 employees currently manufacture and support the float carburetors used in nearly all carbureted general aviation aircraft flying today. Precision has been the manufacturers of these carburetors since 1990. These FAA-approved carburetors were designed as early as the 1930s and continue to fly over a million flight hours a year. After decades of service, the reliability of these carburetors speaks for itself.

Nonetheless, Precision has seen its liability insurance premiums rise dramatically, to the point that the premium now exceeds the total sales dollars for this entire product line. In the past, we have absorbed that cost, with the hope that the aviation industry as a whole would be able to help address this issue faced by Precision Airmotive, as well as many other small aviation companies. Our efforts have been unsuccessful.

This year, despite the decades of reliable service and despite the design approval by the Federal Aviation Administration, Precision Airmotive has been unable to obtain product liability insurance for the carburetor product line. While we firmly believe that the product is safe, as does the FAA, and well-supported by dedicated people both at Precision and at our independent product support centers, unfortunately the litigation costs for defending the carburetor in court are unsustainable for a small business such as Precision.

Therefore, as of November 1, 2007, Precision Airmotive LLC has been left with no choice but to cease production and support of its float carburetor line.

We are working with the engine manufacturers and others in the industry in an attempt to minimize the impact on general aviation and to provide future support for this product line. There is a substantial quantity of parts and carburetors stocked at our distributors, which should be sufficient to support the industry for a short time.


14800 40th Avenue N.E. · Marysville , WA 98271 · USA · Phone: (360) 651-8282 · Fax: (360) 651-8080
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D A M N attorneys and the US legal system!

As I thought about this, we are very lucky. If this were a board for certified airplanes we would be in a load of hurt. As it is, we can switch over to FI w/o doing much of any paperwork. I can only imagine what the cost would be to convert a 1972 O-320 power Skyhawk to FI.

Someone has to pick up the parts business. Anyone for $700 floats?
 
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Well, the legal system aside, insurance companies have some pretty smart folks working for them that have a pretty good idea of what their payouts are likely to be, and pricing the product accordingly.

Which begs the question, do carbureted engines stop turning, leak, catch fire, or whatever more frequently than fuel-injected engines?
 
We need to think of these types of problems as we re-elect lawyers to Congress. Funny thing, Congress' approval ratings are only 11%, but when people are asked how their representative/senator is, they respond much higher. Sort of a grass is browner over there type of situation?

I appreciate the question about reliability between carbs and FI, but the question in this context is irrelevant. With the legal system we have constructed, if you fly a perfectly good airplane into a mountain, the carburetor is also at fault. Any system in the plane with some money behind it is deemed "liable".
 
Parts?

"....cease production and support of its float carburetor line."

Does anyone else make replacement parts?

Or is this an end to even the parts stream?

gil A.... FI looking better....:)
 
I am truly SHOCKED!

Wow! really WOW!

I've talked to their customer service guys on several occasions and heard them elude to or lament about lawsuits. Every time someone ran out of fuel they sued for not telling them they could not fly without fuel.

This product line has been around a long time. The line of products goes back to Wheeler-Schebler and 1902. In 1928 it became one of the founding companies of Borg-Warner Corporation and was now called Marvel-Schebler. It was later bought by Facet, Consolidated and last Precision Airmotive, Inc. in 1990. May be someone will buy it?

With all that history and countless old Carbs sitting and flying around, that's a lot of potential lawsuits. Cessna ended up putting a placard on the panel to cover their legal backside. The placard said failure to check quality and quantity of fuel may result in serious injury or death.

I recommend Carbs for a long time over FI but switched over to FI, especially if buying a new engine, since purchase price between carb / FI is now close. The price of Carbs kept going up to the point it cost almost as much as FI. I knew that the rise in Carb prices was from product liability.

I should not be shocked, it was inevitable but I thought the company would be sold again. Mom's and Dad's tell you kids don't grow up to be cowboys or build things which have huge product liability.

P.S., I would not pat the insurance companies on the back. They just want to make as much money as possible. Nothing wrong with that, but clearly helping people takes a backseat. The goal is to calculate the odds. They are called Actuaries. Job #1 - take in as much money and pay out as little as possible. It's not like they can't cover the risk and still make money. It's about making 7.5 billion verses 4.5 billion. It's called greed.

Insurance drops homeowners from coverage for natural causes, flood, fire, storm and earthquake where people NEED that coverage. Nice. They drop people who need medical insurance due to preexisting conditions Nice. It makes sense from a statistical standpoint, but than insurance companies wounder why people hate them. I have been paying Car, Home and Medical insurance for decades and never made a claim, save a minor one. I wish I did not make that claim. They punished me and raised my insurance to make me pay for it anyway, even though it was not my fault. Nice. The same thing happens in coverage for our planes. They have a corner on the market. The attitude is take it or leave it. Nice.

They may be smart at the insurance companies. I understand free-market, capitalism and profit, but insurance companies SOP is drop coverage or refuse to pay coverage for the most needy, while making more money than imaginable. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. "For a lack of a better word, it's GREED. Greed is good." The richest and most profitable businesses in the world are insurance companies. They HATE to pay out. Their job is NOT to pay out and drop any coverage that does not make MAX profit. I understand that, but don't tell me insurance companies are not full of conflict of interest. States regulate and NEED to regulate insurance companies because THEY have a bad reputation.[/B] Insurance companies rarely do things out of the goodness of their heart.

Good news is there are parts avaiable from Kelly-Aerospace.
 
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Someone in the heathcare insurance section at AIG transfered over to the acft section. They were told "If everyone would get on the Atkins diet and cut the carbs we would save X millions in claims" Now they find to their horror GA is using carbs and wants to cut them to save money.
 
Their are groups in this country who want to kill general aviation. What more effective way than price our fuel out of reach and cut off our supply of support parts. If they get their way, very soon there won't be a certified airplane that will be legal to fly, even if you can buy fuel for it.

Haven't you noticed? That's the way our system works these days.
 
JHines said:
Well, the legal system aside, insurance companies have some pretty smart folks working for them that have a pretty good idea of what their payouts are likely to be, and pricing the product accordingly.
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Yep, but it is the lawyers and legal system that has created the obscenely huge payouts in the first place.
 
My point about the insurance companies is, they raise rates or drop coverage when it's unprofitable (or not profitable enough) - when they are expecting to have to make big payouts.

There is only so much room to "extort" payments for a product if it is truly safe - there are real processes in place to counteract frivolous and excessive awards. And by the way, at least one court has already held that GARA cuts off Precision's liability for carbs over 18 yrs. old.

I'm not defending bad pilots or their lawyers that just cast about looking for a payday- only pointing out that, what you may hear about how much litigation and liability has "hurt" aviation ought to be taken with a grain of salt. Reasonable awards and non-meritorious cases dismissed on summary judgment don't make for nearly as exciting news as $3M hot cups of coffee or $2M BMW paint jobs.

Look at it from this perspective. Think about every airplane crash you've ever heard about on the radio or seen on TV. Being a pilot/owner/builder, how accurate was the reporting?
 
Some smart individual (call him X) will buy the assets of the company, then lease the assets to a corporation (call it Y)which will build new parts and carbs. The lease rate will be high enough to insure "X" makes a good profit. The new corporation "Y", will forgo buying liability insurance and will do a good job of minimizing assets (by paying out most of its $$ in salaries and lease costs). If the company gets sued, it simply goes out of business and someone starts company "Z" to do the exact sames thing.

There are more than a few companies in aviation running this business model. It is a good model to avoid being sued, simply because it isn't worth suing the manufacturer unless it has assets or insurance.
 
Say..

...Kyle. Would you like to get into the Carb manufacturing business down here? Need a partner?

I'm thinking,
 
What this tells me is that they don't sell enough carbs to justify the insurance expense.

Before making a decision about fuel systems to use in an experimental, many builders don't take into account what it costs for parts or overhaul. Precision Airmotive prices their parts astronomically high. Go price a servo diaphragm for a Silverhawk then go price the equivalent part from AFP.
 
lawyers?

As a lawyer who defends product claims like these, I have my own criticisms of the way the system works (a lot of criticisms!). You should remember, however, that it's really not the lawyers. Lawyers just represent clients and bring claims that are supported by judicial decisions and by the legislature. The answer is this: if you don't like the rules, get em changed. Congress did that with GA manufacturers. You might try that with the component manufacturers, too, but then they wouldn't have a lot of motivation to make products better.

Fundamentally, though, it's the credulity of juries enhanced by the dumbing down of society that's the problem. Plaintiff's lawyers can put lipstick on a pig, and a jury may fall in love with that story. I don't know how you fix that.
 
Yea, and it would be helpful if they could sell carburetor floats that wouldn't sink or dissolve in gas, causing nasty crashes. You wouldn't think that would be such a tall order in this high-tech world, would you? Manufacturers have brought many of their woes on themselves.
 
az_gila said:
"....cease production and support of its float carburetor line."

Does anyone else make replacement parts?

Or is this an end to even the parts stream?

gil A.... FI looking better....:)
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Kelly aerospace makes some parts.

I just bought a couple of floats (they are metal (brass), not plastic) and a couple of needle/seat kits from Chief Aircraft to keep on the shelf as spares.
 
Casting experience

Kyle, I have a lot of casting experience working with gold. We had a jewelry store as a second business for 15 years or so and I learned the lost wax casting process and made dozens of rings and pendants from old gold, teeth, wedding bands, etc.

Casting carburetor bodies is not too different. I suspect Precision either has those outsourced or perhaps their own small foundry. My finances are also limited.

Regards,
 
I'm in the aluminum die casting business. The tooling is not that dificult to produce but it is fairly expensive. What about patent rights? I would assume they have pretty much all expired.

Just a thought. Maybe we need a small group to form an LLC and produce carbs.
 
It's not the end

Things can change. They may sell the line or may be get some insurance. Kelly may take it over?

It's true Kelly Aerospace makes some carb parts, but not sure how much they actually make. Most of Kelly's parts where parts made by Consolidated who they bought out. Consolidated had the PMA for making parts for Marvel Schibler carbs. If you buy a float today from Kelly its all OLD NEW STOCK, stuff they bought years ago made by Consolidated.

There will be a market to make carb parts.
 
Yeah, but..

mikegraycmg said:
As a lawyer who defends product claims like these, I have my own criticisms of the way the system works (a lot of criticisms!). You should remember, however, that it's really not the lawyers. Lawyers just represent clients and bring claims that are supported by judicial decisions and by the legislature. The answer is this: if you don't like the rules, get em changed. Congress did that with GA manufacturers. You might try that with the component manufacturers, too, but then they wouldn't have a lot of motivation to make products better.

Fundamentally, though, it's the credulity of juries enhanced by the dumbing down of society that's the problem. Plaintiff's lawyers can put lipstick on a pig, and a jury may fall in love with that story. I don't know how you fix that.
Click to expand...

Who tells the widow to sue? The lawyer at the insurance company. And who picks the jury? The lawyers. And who came up with the idiotic rule that says lawyers get to pick their jury? The lawyers.

Saying you're not responsible because you're just playing the game (that you rigged) by the rules (that you made up) is like a casino saying it's not responsible if a guy loses his house at the craps table when the dice are loaded.

How do you fix it? Well, since the simple ethics that kept the system in check for the past five hundred years no longer works, I would start by implementing loser pays, with the lawyers bearing the cost at the same percentage that they would have benefited from a win. Then I would create a board of non-lawyers with the power to review and fire judges who don't have the sense to throw out frivolous, baseless lawsuits. Then I would ban the lawyer's union (the bar association) from making political contributions. And if that still didn't solve it, I'd just ban lawyers from the courtrooms and make the plaintiffs argue their own cases.
 
Latest Lawsuit

Here's something I found on another website. Apparantly written by the lawyer that just won a lawsuit against Precision and Teledyne for a crash in 1999. What's really interesting is that the NTSB report made no mention of a problem with the carb. The lawyers convinced the jury that the carb failed and a valve stuck at the same time.


Wolk Obtains $53 Million Jury Verdict -- From Precision & Teledyne​
Arthur Alan Wolk, together with Philip J. Ford and Cheryl DeLisle of the Wolk Law Firm, and Terence R. Perkins, of Smith, Hood, Perkins, Loucks, Stout & Orfinger in Daytona Beach, obtained the largest aviation verdict ever in Volusia County, Florida. The jury returned a verdict of more than Fifty-three Million Dollars ($53,000,000.00) in compensatory damages allocating 70% to Precision Airmotive, LLC, maker of aircraft carburetors, and 30% to Teledyne Continental Motors and Teledyne Technologies, makers of aircraft engines. The jury also returned a One and a Half Million Dollar ($1,500,000.00) verdict in punitive damages against Precision.​

The trial ended Thursday July 26, 2007, nearly eight years to the day after the Cessna 150 training aircraft crashed when its Teledyne engine failed on a nighttime takeoff from the Ormond Beach, Florida Airport. The crash severely injured the two occupants: a flight instructor and a student pilot. The occupants suffered facial injuries which required extensive reconstructive surgery, and both occupants suffered years of depression and anxiety from post traumatic stress disorder. Both victims were working towards airline careers and as a result of their injuries were foreclosed from that occupation.​

The cause of the engine failure was a defective carburetor purchased new from the defendant Precision and the engine suffering a stuck exhaust valve. Together with the overly rich fuel mixture from the carburetor malfunction and the valve malfunction, the engine quit. Wolk proved that the Teledyne stuck valve problem had been noted by Teledyne during fuel testing in 1994, but was never corrected. Wolk also proved that carburetor defects were known to the manufacturers since 1954 and after the carburetors failed Precision’s own test protocol in 1992, instead of more rigorous testing, Precision merely changed the test requirements. Results of the carburetor tests were questionable, but rather than use a gasket that would retain most of the required operation characteristics, Precision chose one that did not because the safer and better gasket would require changing the fluid used on its test bench.​

Teledyne offered nothing before trial and Precision offered Three Million Dollars ($3,000,000.00) against a Twenty-five Million Dollar ($25,000,000.00) demand. The offer in mediation was Three Hundred Thousand Dollars ($300,000.00). The proceedings were unusual in that they were video broadcast on the internet in real time. The nine day trial, which was expected to last three to four weeks, had a bizarre twist. After the plaintiffs rested, Precision called its product support manager who claimed that the torque required to keep the carburetor halves together in service really was not intended to be required after assembly, and he denied there was a problem with loose screws by claiming that any problem was related to a particular engine’s vibration. Wolk proved that carburetor bowl screws were repeatedly found loose in new carburetors out of their packing boxes before engine installation had even occurred.​

Precision also called a mechanic expert who opined that high engine temperatures and lack of specified oil changes and unsatisfactory engine cooling baffles caused the valve stickage and not any defect in the carburetor or engine. Wolk established that no official investigator found any problem whatsoever with either the engine baffles, oil changes or maintenance issues with the engine. More importantly, an exemplar aircraft was flown in test without any baffles at all with no adverse results. In addition, Wolk proved that the witness’s direct testimony was inaccurate and that the witness had been criticized as unreliable and misleading by a prior court while witness’s testimony on direct stated that his only prior problem was that a court that didn’t like an exhibit he made.​

After cross-examination of two of some twenty identified defense experts, Precision rested and Teledyne called no one in its defense, relying on the two discredited joint expert witnesses. The jury’s verdict was swift, taking only three hours. The defense strategy for Precision and Teledyne was their typical personal attacks on plaintiffs’ witnesses and Arthur Alan Wolk, plaintiffs’ counsel, a strategy that has repeatedly proved disastrous for these defendants.​

The largest aviation verdict of all time was also obtained by Arthur Alan Wolk and The Wolk Law Firm team in Florida, -- Four-Hundred Eighty Million Dollars ($480,000,000.00) in 2001 against Cessna Aircraft Company.​


ARTHUR ALAN WOLK​
 
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The NTSB Report

NTSB had no mention of a problem with the carb.

MIA99LA201
On July 24, 1999, about 0325 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 150L, N19222, registered to Ormond Beach Aviation Inc., was substantially damaged during a forced landing, near Ormond Beach, Florida. The commercial-rated pilot and dual student pilot reported serious injuries. Visual meteorological conditions (VMC) prevailed in the vicinity, and no flight plan had been filed. The local instructional flight was being conducted in accordance with Title 14 CFR Part 91. The flight had originated from the Ormond Beach Airport, at an unknown time.

The flight was conducted as an instructional flight for the purpose of giving the student a night check-out. At 0324, a "MAYDAY" call was made by one of the pilots to Daytona Airport. The flight had been flying in the traffic pattern at Ormond Beach, when the airplane's engine lost power. The pilot put the airplane down on a road adjacent to the Ormond Beach Mall about 1/2 mile southwest of the airport. The airplane impacted the ground and nosed over. Examination of the wreckage revealed that fuel was present in the fuel tanks.

The engine was examined under the supervision of the FAA at Ormond Beach Aviation's facility, Ormond Beach, Florida, on July 28, 1999. The examination revealed that the No. 2 exhaust valve was stuck in the open position. According to the FAA inspector's statement, "...the No. 2 exhaust valve was stuck open which led to a loss of power." Further examination of the cylinder revealed no discrepancies were found in the valve stem, valve guide size, or part numbers.

Toxicological tests were conducted on both pilots at the Federal Aviation Administration, Research Laboratory, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and revealed, "No ethanol or drugs detected in Blood."

Neither crewmember gave their version of the accident or made any statements. The FAA inspector stated, "the flight instructor suffered a head injury and could not remember the accident. The student [pilot] refused to speak with the FAA and returned to England a few days after the accident."
 
China & legal cost avoidance?

Why not just source the carbs from China...?

A carb that costs us $500 today (and at what price next week...?) would probably go for $50 if made in China. Mayb not $50, but definitley not $500 either...

Can't a lot of this legal/liability/insurance/lawsuit stuff be simply avoided by buying parts overseas...? Most [former] US based manufacturing is already gone anyway.

Why not play the offshoring/outsourcing game to avoid legal costs too...?

PatrickW
 
The easiest solution is just to get rid of all product liability laws to begin with, and curtail the right to sue. In other words, if you buy something, you're on your own. Period. Perhaps it's time to revisit the Constitution a bit where it comes to due process. Do we really need all the rights in 2007 that seemed like good ideas in 1776?

That said, I don't think I'd ever trust my life to some cheap bucket of **** made in China, which -- to my mind -- is everything made in China.
 
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We have the power to change this problem! Never, never vote for a lawyer for public office at any level no matter who's candidate he or she is. It is that simple!

Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
 
Part of the problem is us. We complain about politicians -- and in many cases deservedly so -- but none of us want to serve or run for office. As a result, we get candidates who are not average people. So you end up with professional politicians who are not well rooted in the common sense of real people.
 
Award is ridiculous

Come on. I feel bad for the two guys but $53 mil? Who installed the carb? They did not check it out and was not sued. Why? Because they don't have deep pockets. I thought there where caps on product liability awards.

Flying has risk, ie dangerous. We assume risk in life. I think they should have got something but $53,000,000.00, come on. People expect everything. People expect the Gov will take care of anything and everything. If any bad befalls a person, they want to made whole. Stuff happens. On the flip side of my insurance bashing, I don't blame them for getting out of covering the aviation business. I do think they should have sued and won, but the award was way too high. I am sure it will be in court forever. But really who doubled checked all the carb bolts and flight tested it and re-checked it?

It's like the guy who killed himself in a RV at the Arlington Washington airshow. He most likely had the belt around the passenger stick and was in a hurry to takeoff before the show started and the airport closed. He took off, climbed, stalled/wing-over'ed and crashed nose first next to the runway. He survived the initial impact but the engine pinned his legs. Tragically the plane caught fire and he died in the fire. He may have been gravely injured and died regardless of the fire. Still the estate sued the fire department, the tiny town of Arlington, WA and the airport I recall. What about the part where HE STALLED AND DID NOT DO A CONTROL CHECK? His estate won 8 figures. The lawyers know there is insurance and go for it. The jury's feel sorry for them and they also have this attitude that people should not take any responsibility.
 
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I think the proposals for caps on jury awards were for medical and malpractice cases. Doctors and hospitals must contribute more to campaigns than factory owners.:(
 
Hope this is not the start of a trend

I'm hoping this is not the case, but I fear that this is the start of a trend. If so, I hope that at least the experimental path remains viable.

Anybody know if Precision is having product liability issues with the Precision Silverhawk fuel injection? I hope that it being an experimental gives them some immunity from bloodsucking leaches like Wolk and allows reasonable insurance. Anybody know how if this is any different for a company offering components to the experimental market vs. certified?

Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit.
 
A Thorp T18 owner wrote to Mr. "leach" Wolk:


Dear Sir,

Thank you for your response to my harsh email.

You are very correct. I do not know all the facts.

As to the history of Precision Carburetors, I do know quite a lot however. Their products have been involved in millions of safe flying hours.

Any part of any system has a potential failure point. It is impossible to design anything to last forever.

And failure of a single component can occur due to many external factors...such as severe temperature extremes which you are very aware occurred to a rudder component in some tragic commercial airline crashes. I am not sure how it is possible to predict all the variables that can occur that can lead to a failure.

Going back to the carb. The engine won't work without it. So it is necessary to have it. I point this out since the failure possibility would be zero if it could be removed from the total system.

It is the same for gasoline...it has burned up many planes.....propellers...the break....wiring...it frays, catches on fire...tires...they explode ...instruments...fail or give misleading information.

My point in all this is that if you carry the logic to the extreme that each supplier should be held up to the yard stick you put Precision too...then no supplier of any component on any aircraft could possibly survive that test.

I understand that Precision did not settle at an earlier point in time.

Anyway, as a pilot yourself you understand that there are many risks involved in the act of flying. And I understand that you fell victim once to a very severe accident.

I feel badly for anyone who flys and has a misfortune. I have lost many dear friends.

What I truly don't understand about this Precision matter is how the result of their being forced out of business increases the safety of aviation in any way. There are hundreds of thousands of Precision carbs in the GA fleet. Mechanics are going to continue to service them according to the current specs. Checking torque, adjusting float levels, cleaning screens etc. will continue to be done as it has been.

Unfortunately we know that there will be the situation where the plane will sit neglected for months, or years. Parker pen annuals will be done on it with the result sometime very bad will happen.

And in the case of Precision it seems logical that when someone takes on this product line, the parts cost will raise significantly to meet the higher cost of liability insurance due to the significant court action initiated by your firm.

And out of all of this how does a 30plus year old design for a carb.
become safer? Suppose it leaks...and all the fuel runs out. The plane looses power, etc. Or it leaks fuel on to the exhaust...the plane catches fire. Or it gets dirt in the tank, and it (the dirt) finds its way to the carb (somehow) and causes it to have a problem....and of course there is the old standby CARB ICING. Or if you let your imagination take wing, there is the possibility of an out of balance propeller that creates just the right vibration that makes the carb attach nuts or the float bowl vibrate loose

Well, I am still shaking my head in wonderment about this turn of events.

A hypothetical: If an off shore vendor, say in China jumps in and produces knock off Precision parts that find there way into certified airplanes in the US
while a violation of the airworthiness certificate for any plane employing those parts, would the overall safety of the plane be any less than it is today? Since these Carbs are used world wide and not just in the US some channels of resupply will occur.

With all the forces at work driving up the cost of GA in the US
I am very concerned that this case while a success from your Firm's point of view, is just one more nail in the future of light aircraft operation in the United States.

Tom Hunter
 
Mr. Wolk responded with this:

Dear Mr. Hunter:

I am sorry that without knowing any of the facts you have seen fit to attack me.

The Precision carburetors have serious and fatal defects in them that have taken many lives. You have never seen those documents because Precision requires a Protective Order so none of the history it has known about will be made public to save lives, including yours.

My verdicts against Precision occurred because its lawyers and its officers decided to go to trial on cases they can't win, take positions in those trials that were scientifically nonsensical, and then attack pilots whose sole error was flying airplanes equipped with engines that had the misfortune of being equipped with one of their carburetors. For example, Precisions product support head testified that the torque of the bowl screws was meant only for assembly, not for the field, and it was okay if the screws lost virtually all their torque in service.

Not a month after the trial, Lycoming, to its credit, reissued a longstanding service bulletin that said check the torque to make sure it remains at 50 inch pounds. This is why Precision got hammered by the jury, and this is why you should be angry, but not at me.

Precision is making these noises because it wants the engine manufacturers to pick up its products liability defense, as they do for other component manufacturers. A deal will be struck, and life or death will go on.

They could and should have settled before trial for a tiny fraction of that verdict. I spent $2 million of my own money to win that case for my clients, and I want no credit, but the harshness of your e-mail is unfair and surely does not reflect the person you are.

Thanks,

Arthur Alan Wolk


From: Thomas Hunter [mailto:thunter007007@...]
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 2:07 AM
To: Cheryl DeLisle
Cc: Thorp List; managing-editor@...
Subject: Fwd: [ThorpList] PRECISION AIRMOTIVE CARBERATORS

Dear Mr. Wolk,

Any comments as to your "victory" in this instance, or do you see this as a step forward in creating a better environment for aviation "safety".......or is it just another example of using the court system to your firms benefit?

I am sure you can easily defend your position because you truly believe in what you do....helping your clients, the "victims" of companies like Lycoming and Continental and their suppliers or American Airlines or now defunct Pan Am.

Just like shooting fish in a barrel, huh? Bury em in paperwork. Tie um up forever in court. Trot out experts. Confuse the jury with endless details.

Responsibility aside. The crash occurred due to the fault of the carb.
Why not. Gotta blame something. Improper maintenance. NO WAY.
Improper operation....why how is that possible? Weather?


Now sometimes lawyers do good.
Sometimes.

You can have the slickest web site in the world. You can have success in litigation with Cessna, Piper, Cirus or any large carrier. You can pat yourself on the back and tell your friends what a great person you are, but the truth of what you do is self deception.

Self Deception is a wonderful thing isn't it? Must be a great aide in helping you win your clients business so you can use your clients situations to create a case that you can win?

I take responsibility for my actions. I check the nuts holding my airplane's fuel injection servo in place. I check the nuts holding the Mags in place. I check the fuel level with a stick since the mechanical gage might not be accurate, but you can't fool a stick. If I run out of gas, it's my fault. If I crash short of the runway with 2 miles and 400 feet, its my fault.

I don't take anything for granted when I fly my plane. The bucks starts and stops with me. Of course I carry liability insurance. Accidents do happen and I am quite aware of that.

But some accidents happen due to ignorance of the operator. If a rod comes thru the side of the case, typically there is some warning of that impending event. As an involved and responsible pilot I read the NTSB reports and try and learn from each accident. I have been doing that for many years and am quite amazed at what I still have to learn.

An accident is a tragedy. I have unfortunately lost many friends in crashes. You can't be involved with aviation for the years as I have without experiencing these horrible moments which seem to stop time and seemingly make no sense at all.

But I am sickened by your feeding off these unfortunate souls. Both living and dead. And dedicating your work, your energy and profession to justice? At 40% of the money on the table? Sorry if my %'s are a little off. I am not up on your current rate schedule.

I would be very interested in deed to hear from you how the decision by Precision Airmotive to stop production is in all our best interests.

And I apologize if I came across in this email as angry. I feel like I've lost part of what is important to me....a known aircraft parts supplier of a known product that I depend on. And I'm looking for the cause of his death.

Tom Hunter
 
... Not a month after the trial, Lycoming, to its credit, reissued a longstanding service bulletin that said check the torque to make sure it remains at 50 inch pounds. This is why Precision got hammered by the jury, and this is why you should be angry, but not at me...
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Uh, huh. Refer to my tagline on this one...
 
CURRENT WORLD EVENTS

"Thousands of Lawyers Arrested in Pakistan" :eek:

Maybe they're onto something......
 
What?

A deal will be struck, and life or death will go on.

They could and should have settled before trial for a tiny fraction of that verdict. I spent $2 million of my own money to win that case for my clients, and I want no credit(?), but the harshness of your e-mail is unfair and surely does not reflect the person you are.

Thanks, Arthur Alan Wolk
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What? :eek: I thought they wanted $25 mil from the get go. That's a small or a tiny fraction? The part where he spent $2 million of his own money to win the case and wants no credit is funny. WHAT? :rolleyes: I'm sure he made his millions back many fold. The self pity party at the end is pathetic. He is laughing all the way to the bank and does not care. He is writing his email onboard his new yacht.

What's the difference between a Catfish and a Lawyer?

One is a bottom dwelling slimy scaly scum sucker,

The other is a fish.
 
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Curiousity question, if we have an attorney present:

Does moving a business offshore offer real protection? Suppose I want to be in the aircraft carb business and set up manufacturing in Costa Rica, or even just across the border in Mexico. Do you get protection by locating anywhere outside the US, or just in certain countries?

I notice the North American Rotax importer is based in the Bahamas.
 
bsacks05 said:
CURRENT WORLD EVENTS

"Thousands of Lawyers Arrested in Pakistan" :eek:

Maybe they're onto something......
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Declare 365 days of open season and most of our issues could be solved.

Get this:

I have a new foster child that needs to perform some community service work. After an exhausting two weeks, we still can't locate a place for him to perform his community service, not even at a non-profit, all due to lawyers and their frivolous lawsuits. We can?t afford the insurance anymore is all we hear.

Oh but their day is coming... :eek:
 
One In A Billion

Wow, so the attorney convinced the jury that there were two catastrophic failures at the same time. Which came first, the chicken or the egg! I am confused! 53 million dollars? Wow, I guess with GA accidents the lowest in history, it must be making it really tough for the GA Ambulance chasers to make a living, thus they need to pick the jury themselves, confuse the heck out of them to get such high awards. This is really sad:(

Well, I hope this will not trickle down to the experimental market and put engine makers out of business! Then what will we do? Who is next on the list to put out of business?
 
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