Doug Rohrer

Well Known Member
I bought a flying RV-9A a little over a year ago. It has a 0-320 engine. The POH that came with the plane made no mention of using carb heat during landing. The training plane I used to get my PPL (C-172) has the same engine and called for carb heat when the engine speed was reduced below cruise power. Is there something different about the air box/filter on my RV-9A that would eliminate the need for carb heat, or did the builder just forget to include this in his POH? All comments appreciated.

Doug
 
Doug,

That just means the guy who wrote the POH probably forgot about the crab heat.

In my RV-9, your results may be different, when I slow down to land w/o the carb heat, the decrease in air flow through the cowl will raise the carb temperature enough that carb ice is unlikely. However, I still have carb heat, should I need it.
 
is it bad???

I am in the same situation ( bought flying -9a) and my training was to ALWAYS use carb heat.
Sure the lyc is not PRONE to it, but if the temp and dewpoint are within 4 ? degrees, unless you have a carb throat probe, I'd use heat.
The bonus is....the air is all filtered, so the only downside is a slightly richer mixture, which you can compensate for.
 
If the engine has a Marvel Schebler carburetor, the ARP carb ice detector will show it if you've got it. It's installed on my Cessna 180 and it works great. Reliable.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/icedetect2.php

No point using carb heat if there's no ice, and with this thing you'll learn when to expect it on that engine and that installation.

I'm not connected to the product, just a happy user of it.
 
I have carb heat....

....on my RV-6 (YO-360-A1A) using the Van's "tube over the exhaust cross pipe" system. The flap might prevent snow and ice from entering the filtered air box and restricting induction air but the amount of heated air that the heat exchanger provides isn't enough to cause an RPM drop during preflight run up checks. I'm skeptical but always use it when entering the pattern out of C-172 habit.

Jim Sharkey
 
I have generally gotten out of the habit of using Carb heat on every approach when I am flying with Lycomings - unless the POH tells me to, of course. When I owned both a J-3 (Continental) and a Yankee (Lycoming), I'd use carb heat in the Cub, but not in the Yankee. The carb heat is so minimal in the RV stock intake configuration (and even with the little tube from the exhaust pipe) that I really don't think it does much - which is good, since Lycs are much less prone to carb icing. (Note: I am NOT saying it doesn't happen - it just not very likely!).

Anyway, there are those of us you only use it if there is an indication of carb ice, and I haven't had such an indication yet in my -8.

Paul
 
I came to my RV-6 via a Warrior with carbed O-320 and carb heat was never used on that plane. I don't know the difference in the induction system of the Warrior and C172 and why carb heat wasn't used in the Warrior but always used in the pattern with the 172. Could the 172 practice be a holdover from the older Continental-powered 172's? The Conti has the carb hanging under the engine instead of bolted to the hot sump of the Lyc.

In nearly eleven years of flying my O-320 RV-6, I've never used carb heat in flight. Two times carb ice has been experienced during an extended taxi and the following runup, but I've never used it inflight.

No doubt there are those who have flown an RV in conditions that dictated carb heat (snow), but as a general rule, the heat knob is only used during runup to make sure the heat door is closed.

By the way, my experience with the simple temp probes in the carb is that they are worthless. A sophisticated system such as referenced in an earlier post is necessary to have useful carb temp info.
 
I am a "no" carb heat RV pilot. My friends are not either. Most RVs use Lycoming engines. The carb is bolted directly to the oil sump, which adds a bit of heat to the carb body. This is unlike older Cessnas that use to be Continental powered. The Continental does not pick up any heat from an oil sump. This is why older Cessnas always called for carb heat on the landing, while Lycoming powered Pipers did not. The Lycoming manual calls for carb heat, only if you think you need it. Since we fly out of high altitude mountain airports, the chance of leaving carb heat "on" during a go-around is not good. It robs the engine of takeoff power.

So..........in reality, you'll find a lot of former Cessna pilots putting carb heat in the checklist. And many former Piper pilots won't. And since I, as well as my friends fly these mountain areas with Lycomings, we don't either.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
.The flap might prevent snow and ice from entering the filtered air box and restricting induction air but the amount of heated air that the heat exchanger provides isn't enough to cause an RPM drop during preflight run up checks.

Similar situation with our RV-6 (O-360-A1A, standard FAB, Robbins Wings carb heat muff). We have a digital RPM gauge, and sometimes I can see a 10 or 20 RPM drop at runup, but not more than that.

And, while our POH says "carburetor heat as needed", the number of times it has been needed, in 640 hours, seems to be zero.

YMMV, but this appears to be pretty normal for these planes.

--Paul
 
I use it.

I use my carb heat on every landing. It's there, why not use it. I installed it, I'm going to use it.
 
Every flight, almost

I use the carb heat on every runup, to check it. I think my system is well above average because I do get about a 30 RPM drop at 1700 RPM. I have never used it in any other situation.

I used to ride with someone who had a less efficient carb heat system. There was no drop at 1700 RPM. I asked them why they were checking it on every runup and the answer was something like, "well I can verify that the mechanism isn't jammed."
 
A carb temp sensor came with my Skyview. I was surprised that the carb temp jumps 20 degrees (up) when you pull power. With a Lycoming I wouldn't add MORE heat on top of that.
 
Thanks for all the responses. It appears that about half of you use carb heat and half don't. I have not been using it and have gotten out of the habit, but have not had any need for it in the 13 months I have had the plane. Like most of the rest of you, I don't get an RPM drop during run-up, and I agree the Van's stock system is marginal at best.

Doug
 
heat muff

...oh, not to belabour the point, I have the stock Van's heat pipe, ( can't call it a muff) and without instrumentation, have to conclude it is there to make me feel good. Okay, there is a slight rpm drop, sometimes, that is almost imperceptible on the tiny stock tach.....
Some folks have seen them chafe thru the crossover pipe, so that's another detractor.
I have considered re-routing one of my cabin heat muffs, which put out 4000 degree air by the ton! :)
at the least, next annual I'll install a Robbins wings muff that has been documented to heat the air a bit!
 
Last edited:
I have some insight on carb icing and the use of carburetor heat, which may be of some use to the RV community. A long time ago, I purchased a basket case Luscombe (still have the airplane, 40 years later!), and assembled it while I was a college student. In the box of all the parts was an old airbox, with no provision for a filter. The combination of the A65 and unfiltered air was very conducive to carburetor icing. I had one engine failure and dead stick landing on an airport due to carb ice, noted by water dripping out of the carb 15 minutes after changing my shorts!

I replaced the carb air box with one requiring a filter and the situation changed significantly. There were fewer times when I picked up carb ice, although it would still occur and I had to be ready for it. The circumstantial evidence is that the turbulence created aft of the filter, or reduction in speed of the air flow reduced the formation of carb ice.

On that airplane and others with the small Continental engines, I would routinely do a normal run-up, check for rpm drop with carb heat, then check the engine at idle with full carb heat applied. If there was any roughness, or if the rpm was lower than it should be, carb ice during taxi out was suspected, and I would run with carb heat applied at a higher power setting until the check was satisfactory at idle. It is very possible to get carb ice when taxiing on a moist morning, or on grass wet with dew.

Moist conditions can exist in layers, for example if you are flying at the level where clouds will begin to form, but before they actually do. I was flying one day along the eastern shore of Lake Erie in the Luscombe and encountered icing conditions where the wind was blowing onshore in a fairly narrow band.

Now about the Lycomings and ice. Some of my early test flying experience was on an FAA contract to study carb icing. We used a Piper Apache and flew IFR in a published holding pattern near the airport at Springfield, OH. While the hold was within gliding distance, we never had to use that feature. We ran one engine with full carb heat and let the instrumented Lycoming O-320 ice up. We found that if we allowed the unprotected engine to ice below 15 inches MP, no amount of heat would recover it, and we would land single engine. A good takeaway here is that in worst case conditions, a Lycoming can lose power and stop due to carb ice.

Many of the earlier European designs (Jode Musketeer, Fournier RF-5, as examples), did not have carb heat. Instead, their filtered air came from inside the cowl space, after being heated by the cylinders. In spite of conditions strongly conducive to carb icing, it was a successful approach to the problem, with few events. Of course, there was a performance penalty to pay for the loss of rpm.

What I think makes sense for us RVers is to have carb heat available, be continuosly aware of outside conditions, and have a monitoring system available. During construction of my RV-8, I did some reading about carb ice detectors. I found that while they work, the literature says they are less reliable than a temp sensor mounted in the carburetor itself. Temperature can be both monitored, and set to alarm if conditions are conducive to carb ice. So I monitor carb temp on my GRT EIS, and use that as both an alarm, and as a check that my carb heat system is working (weakly, as most of us admit!).

I also think, going back to my experience in the Luscombe and the European designs, that the carb air box design Van recommends creates significant turbulence in the airflow. That, and the warmth from the engine and exhaust in a fairly tight cowl keep the carburetor fairly warm. These may be the reasons we see few cases of carb ice in our RVs.
 
Bad Design

I never use carb heat on my RV-6A with a O-360-A1A. Still with the stock system I had to modify the the door mount and the control cable/door lever interface to keep them from falling apart after a few hundred hours. This is also true of the magnetic latched by-pass door and the mounting plate for the filter air box. I keep them as a last resort if I start losing power (not waiting until it gets ready to quite) but I would be expecting to land soon. This has never happened in the RV-6A in 500-600 hours but it happened twice over ~4,000 hours in my old Piper Archer II with a O-360-A4M. In both of those cases carb heat was effective in clearing the problem. In the case of the Archer the the actuation system failed every 1,000 hours or so when the control cable broke at the the "flapper" valve control lever because of the actuation every preflight during run-up (twice a day, every work day in the Los Angeles basin plus all the travel flights).

Bob Axsom