C

Chip

Member
Flying around these lovely WV hills this summer caused me to consider off-airport landing options. There are plenty of open fields that ought to be available in case of need for an immediate landing, but what seems to be a pretty smooth looking piece of grass from a couple of thousand feet AGL, may not be so smooth on landing. Which raised a thought that if the RV flips over (an RV-6, with a pop-up, in this case), wouldn't you be a lot better off without the canopy trapping you in the airplane?

That consideration, of course, leads to the question of what happens when you jettison a pop-up? Is it going to clear the cockpit area as it goes, and not take your head with it? What kind of clearance likelihood on the vertical fin?

As this particular RV-6 has the pop-up with lift struts, what kind of separation complications would be expected...or, if we're dealing with too many unknowns, are you better off leaving the canopy in place, and hoping for the best?

I doubt there's a whole lot of info on this issue, but, if any data is out there, I'd sure appreciate hearing it.

Regards to all,

Chip Sieglinger
 
Last edited:
The lift struts would most likely cause the canopy to "flail" around and probably injure you before braking away. That's why I don't like them. With the original canopy hold-up, nothing is attached when the canopy is closed.
Unless you are leaving the airplane in flight, I would prefer to have the canopy intact during landing for protection from FOD. Imagine sliding inverted without the canopy.
Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it!
 
And you've also got the possibility (not a small one either) of damaging the tail as it departs, perhaps turning your dead-engine glider into an uncontrollable aircraft. To my way of thinking, you only jettison the canopy if you're ready to bail over the side - and once you jettison, you are committed.
 
Good thoughts, Mel & Greg. Not sure about the FOD angle...I expect the airplane is pretty much done moving if the tail goes over the nose. The idea of possibly being stuck in the cockpit with a fuel-fed fire potential causes me more than a little concern, and that canopy could be really tough to try to get by if the airplane was on its back. However, the idea of the canopy flailing around while it decides which lift strut to tear out first, definitely would incline me to lay very low if I tried tossing the canopy in flight. I can see it coming back at you and taking your head with it.

From what I can see, there is no data on pop-up canopy separation on the RVs. It seems we can only speculate. You gents have pretty much the same thoughts I do, though. Probably better to keep it on the airplane unless you're going over the side. Not having a parachute, that idea isn't too appealing either.

Chip
 
Hi Chip....

....the only recorded bailout is from an RV-8 that was on fire a few years ago. The guy did manage to open the canopy and jump to his death. Nobody has yet proven that the canopy in -6's and -7's is indeed openable in flight, so getting out is not yet ascertained, meaning that parachutes may well be only a "feel-good" situation and may in fact be useless if you can't jump.

Carry a big axe or other canopy breaking tool in case you end up in an upside-down and trapped situation and remember to turn off the gas on your way down. Don't cringe too much reading this, but this is real world stuff!

Regards,
 
Repeating post: escaping when upside down/canopy jettison need

Frank Eldridge (deceased) had this happen to him and wrote and spoke about his being thrown into the baggage area of his 6A. He was upside down with the plane partially in a wet area. He pulled his 5-6" pocket knife out and chipped out a large enough area on the rear baggage area to crawl out of the plane. Later I crawled back in that hole to recover some personal items for him. His only injury in the accident was a cut on his head from being cut by the plexiglass.

His best advice, some of which you will read in the links I added in the tribute I wrote a few weeks ago under the forum 'RV Friends Who Have Passed On' suggested:
1) Buy and wear the best seat belt/shoulder harnesses you can afford
2) Always carry a sharp knife on your person to use to break the canopy out.

I was on-scene within moments of Frank's accident. I helped recover the airplane and helped in the NTSB investigation. Frank's RV was kept in my hanger.I am very familiar with this accident and the excellent protection the RV-6A design provided.

So, with this experience as a background, I have a canopy breaker tool from an F-4 mounted on the back side of my 6A flap motor mount. I have a strong folding hunting knife in a side pocket. I installed Hooker harnesses along with a strong crotch strap. I used removeable 'gear' pins to hold my slider canopy on the front canopy mounts.

From one of Frank's articles:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Eldridge" <[email protected]>

January 1, 2003, I had a forced landing in a RV6A. After a ground roll of about
20 feet in a swampy area the plane ended up on its back. I found myself in
the baggage compartment unhurt. I had always thought that I could kick plexiglass
in the canopy out, but I could not. I always carry a pocket knife with a three
inch locking blade and I was able to take that knife and break a hole in
the canopy to get out. The only blood in the airplane was where I cut my hands
on the plexiglass breaking a larger hole in order to extract myself. I strongly
recommend to all my RV friends that they carry a knife like mine in their
pocket because in my case I could not have got to a tool in the cockpit of the
airplane. I have followed RV accidents very closely since mine, and a large
number wind up on their back. So, please get a knife and keep it in your pocket
when flying an RV. There is a story about my accident posted on Doug Reeves
Van's Air Force Web page. Here is the link to my particular article:

http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/FrankEldridge0.pdf

Best of luck,

Frank
 
Escaping While Trapped Upside Down

I presently carry a mulitpurpose cutting tool (I am having a senior moment and can't think of the name of the darn tool). When not flying, I set it on the glareshield so I don't forget it. The tool comes with a belt holder carrying case. When flying, I attach the case to my belt. This way, the tool would always be within my reach assuming I survived the crash.

The potential problem with any of these manual escape tools is that your ability to gain any leverage to use them effectively may be in doubt...particularly if you are injured and/or hanging upside down in your straps.

A small, portable, power tool such a dremel with a cutting disk may be a viable option.

Regards,
 
DAGO said:
A small, portable, power tool such a dremel with a cutting disk may be a viable option.
Click to expand...

The only warning here would be; Don't use a power tool if you smell fuel. Any small spark generated by a power tool will not fare well with fuel fumes.
 
Mel said:
The only warning here would be; Don't use a power tool if you smell fuel. Any small spark generated by a power tool will not fare well with fuel fumes.
Click to expand...

Good point Mel. What we need is a talented RV builder to design and market a tool that would meet our needs. I'm too dumb and forgetful to take on such a task.

Regards,
 
Gerber

I keep a gerber LMF II within reach for breaking plexi or cutting through aluminum. Hopefully I will never have to use it.
 
no details, but.....

I'm sure I've seen a product made specifically for breaking an RV canopy. Maybe it was at AirVenture a few years ago. IIRC, it replaced the passenger's stick. It was a bar with a hardened pointed end. Can't recall if it was just solid metal or if it had a spring inside it. Probably just solid. Sorry i can't remember more details right now. Will update if I can find or recall more details.

On the subject of the thread, I decided the whole canopy jettison idea was so iffy and the canopy quick disconnect ejection rod & parts were in the way of avionics, so I just fasten my tipup canopy hinges down with regular bolts, not the sliding pins.
 
I found a tool named "Life Hammer" at the Container Store last year and mounted it along the right forward side of the front seat within easy reach. What attracted me to it was the light weight yet really solid metal head with very sharp points on two sides of the hammer. I've been curious how well it would work (hoping I never have to find out for real).

After I bought the tool, I happened to see an episode of Mythbusters where they were testing ways to get out of a submerged automobile. It's a lot more difficult than you might think considering the outside pressure being put on the doors. One of the methods they tried, after giving up on opening the door, was breaking the car's driver side glass window using the "Life Hammer". One quick tap and bingo, the window shattered and out you go through the window. Keep in mind that car windows are tempered glass so that might be the key to its effectiveness. I don't know if the same result would happen with a plexiglass canopy, but I was encouraged at the effectiveness of this small hammer. By the way, the tool also incorporates a sharp cutter slot for cutting away seatbelt material. I think it cost less than $20.

Chris
 
chrispratt said:
I found a tool named "Life Hammer"

Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks, Chris. I googled Life Hammer (http://www.lifehammer.com/) and I believe that's the one I was thinking of. I seem to recall someone was selling them at AirVenture several years ago. I also have a vague recollection of one that doubles as the removable passenger's control stick. I guess it would be easy enough to make something like that - fill the lower end with lead to give it some weight and put a solid sharp point in the end.
brian
 
Last edited:
Life Hammer....

Chris,

This tool has been talked about before, and I have one that was given to me a number of years ago as a gift. Unfortunately, it sits in a drawer (probably should be in my truck) because in my opinion, it would be pretty useless in breaking a typical RV canopy. It is designed (as you suspected) to break tempered safety glass, as you have in a car. It is so light, and plexi is so flexible, that it is just going to bounce off your canopy in most cases.

I spent 25 years in the fire/rescue world, and have broken LOTS of car windows and windshields, and it is amazing how easy (and fun) it is to break them with a sharp, pointed object. In fact, my all time favorite tool for this job is a spring-loaded center-punch. (I didn't know the tool was designed as a center punch until I started building my RV - I thought it was intended as a rescue window breaker!).

In my opinion, the only thing the life hammer is good for in an airplane accident is as a belt cutter, and you can do that with many different survival knives.

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
Chris,

...In my opinion, the only thing the life hammer is good for in an airplane accident is as a belt cutter, and you can do that with many different survival knives.

Paul
Click to expand...

So Paul, what do you use or suggest we use for a canopy buster?

Chris
 
brian said:
I'm sure I've seen a product made specifically for breaking an RV canopy...... replaced the passenger's stick. It was a bar with a hardened pointed end.......
Click to expand...
You are referring to the "Bubble-Buster." I have one fitted to the passenger side in my -6A. Oftentimes, I remove and stow it in the back when I want unobstructed space or am transporting stuff. To allow a passenger to use the radio and to keep everything simple, I mounted the co-pilot PTT on the sill.

http://www.safeair1.com/SA1_products/TAF_BubbleBuster_a.htm

20zo84n.jpg
 
Resurrecting an old thread here...

I just found a good deal on the Gerber LMF II knife at Amazon for $65.99. The butt of the knife was designed for breaking military helicopter Plexiglas, so I assume it'll be good in an RV too. I hope this link helps somebody.
 
Gash said:
Resurrecting an old thread here...

I just found a good deal on the Gerber LMF II knife at Amazon for $65.99. The butt of the knife was designed for breaking military helicopter Plexiglas, so I assume it'll be good in an RV too. I hope this link helps somebody.
Click to expand...

Resurrecting an old answer.... :D

Posted this a while ago:

Here is what I carry in my -6. Made for just that scenario.

Leave it in the sheath for breaking the canopy and its then an excellent survival knife. It has good mass and swings easier than a hammer in tight spaces. Point in handle is used to break the canopy (stays in sheath while doing so). Not field tested by me but by manuf. Available here: USE THE AMAZON LINK FOR A BETTER DEAL...

http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/GB1629/Gerber-LMF-II-Infantry-Black-484-inch-Fixed-Blade-Sheath

2yuc9bo.jpg



This is a GREAT DEAL on an excellent product. Amazon had another $10 off coupon today. I decided I needed another one today and hit the Amazon link. I'm a prime member so free shipping and a $55 total price. I'll use one for the plane and one for camping, etc
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.