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ErichKeane

Well Known Member
Hi all--
I finally got our AP back from Dynon after they had sent us the wrong one.

I powered the system on, and cannot for the life of me get the D180 to recognize the AP! I have everything powered on and plugged in according to the directions, but when I do the DSUB configuration, it still shows it as a Standalone!

I re-did the 5.4 update hoping it would fix stuff, but it didn't. I imagine I have to update the AP/servos as well to the 5.4, but it seems like I cannot do that without having them networked.

Anyone have an idea of how I can get this to work? I tried powercycling everything a few times and restarting them in different orders, but every time I do a Configure it only pulls up the 1 device.

Also, when I go into the AP settings, it complains that the D180 isn't the BusMaster (because it is Standalone?) so it won't let me configure the AP at all.
 
You could try disconnecting the connector from your ELT as the data line goes there and can be the problem. If it works with the ELT connector off then it is the wire connected to the blue wire at the ELT connector cut it then peal back the shield and put a small length of heat shrink over the center wire and the folded back shield to make sure they do not touch or ground. Cap the blue wire also.

Good luck,
Vern
 
Doesn't the Dynon AP module have its own, separate, RS-232 serial cable to connect to a computer for updating its firmware?

I know the HS34 module does, and it had to be updated with the rest of the DSAB-connected devices powered off.

I updated the software in the D100 + HS34 + D120 in the RV-8 and they all had to be done individually one at a time. The DSAB communications between them would not fully work until they were all at the same software version.
 
The Autopilot does not have its own RS232 cable, all it has is the main Db25 or whatever that hooks into the 'optional' harness.

I'll try what Vern says next time I get the chance.
 
CONFIGURE DSAB

ErichKeane,
Was the AP74 powered on and the buttons lit up while updating?
Have you done the CONFIGURE DSAB as described on page 8-14 of the Dynon FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide?
Joe
 
Mich48041 said:
ErichKeane,
Was the AP74 powered on and the buttons lit up while updating?
Have you done the CONFIGURE DSAB as described on page 8-14 of the Dynon FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide?
Joe
Click to expand...

Yes it was, and I've been doing the CONFIGURE DSAB as noted, and it keeps only identifying a single device.
 
A few options!

Erich, couple of things. When you did the software update did you click on, "Detect Firmware Version"? If so, you should see all the different types of hardware on the system, D180, both servos, & AP74. If you dont see this then no use going any further. As Joe said do the CONFIG DSAB and if it doesnt find the AP74 then you have a problem. As I recall if you have different software versions on the D180 and the AP74 then that may cause a problem. When you first did the Software update to the D180 to version 5.4 was the AP74 installed or was it out of the Airplane? If the D180 has 5.4 and the AP74 has an older Version then that could be the problem. You may have to take your D180 back down to 5.3 then run the CONFIG DSAB again. Call Dynon Tech and Ask for Mike Huff and ask what version Software was on your AP74 they sent you. He can direct you to where they have the older versions of there software on there web site so you can change the D180 back to 5.3 if you need to. Hope this helps. Keep us updated.
 
Our D180 shipped with the 5.4. It asked specifically if I wanted to overwrite it.

It listed the D180 and something starting with an E, which I suspect is the magnetometer or something.

It would be a real pain if I had to get them all to the same version first! We JUST this week got the AP74 back from an RMA (looked like a new unit), so I'd hope that it was the latest version!
 
5.3 or 5.4 it would show up.

Heck I even ran my system with the efis at 5.4 and the EMS, AP74, Servos and remote compass at 5.3.

It is not a good idea to have mismatched versions but unless there is a major revision diff, it will at least detect the items. If they must be upgraded to talk, it will tell you that fact.

I suspect that you have a wiring issue.
 
Yes Joe, thats exactly what I was doing. I have the schematic, though that seems like we'll be at it a while!

The harness between the EFIS and the AP74 is all from the factory though, so unless a bad wire job somewhere else messed it up, I doubt that that should be a problem.
 
Trust me you need to check the wiring....factory wiring can and has had mistakes. Also, make sure all the pins are fully seated as this is a common problem.

If you can verify power is applied and the DASB wiring is correct, you should be able to see them on the network....
 
This is an email I got from Rian at Van' when I was having the same problem. My problem was on the first line of the email, I had'nt turned the switch on:rolleyes: (that is the switch on the panel)

Simplistic here but do you have the Autopilot switch turned on?



Do you have the AP-74?



FYI I sent a note to the appropriate people about builder notification of the serial port issue.



Circuit Checks



Circuit DSAB-B

D-180 EFIS 25-Pin D-Sub Pin 5 to YEL (connected to GRN from servo) check good



Circuit DSAB-A

D-180 EFIS 25-Pin D-Sub Pin 4 to BLU (connected to BLU from servo) check good



Circuit Auto Pilot Disconnect

Remove the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL harnesses 25-Pin D-Sub connector that plugs into the back of the board (not the AP-74)



On the D-Sub on the harness check for continuity between pins 9 and 12 (there should not be at this point)



now press the Autopilot disconnect switch near the throttle and there should be continuity.



with everything on the AV CONTROL BOARD 12 turned on does the light in the autopilot disconnect switch come on?



Autopilot Power and Ground

on the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL harness 25-Pin D-Sub connector that plugs into the back of the board now check for continuity between pin 16 and the RED that connects to the RED wire coming from the roll servo.



Check for continuity between pin 11 on the same D-Sub and the BLK wire that connects to the BLK wire coming from the roll servo.



On the board 25 Pin Optional D-Sub check for continuity between pin 11 and ground.



With the board powered up on this same D-sub check for 12V on Pin 16





If all these checks are good then the wiring and the AV CONTROL BOARD 12 are hooked up and functioning correctly. At that point it's a hardware software issue





Rian Johnson

Engineer

Van's Aircraft
_____________________
#120367 started 4/21/10 first flight 10/20/10 with a10 week period waiting for parts.
 
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Checking autopilot continuity

Check that the servos are wired correctly:
Servo Blue spliced to harness Blue
Servo Green spliced to harness Yellow

I would unplug connectors from the D-180 and AP74 and SERVOS before checking continuity just to make sure the ohmmeter does not damage those units.
The following points should have continuity:
D-180 EFIS-25-D-Sub-connector-pin 4 and AP74 pin 3 and YEL harness wire at servo.
D-180 EFIS-25-D-Sub-connector-pin 5 and AP74 pin 16 and BLU harness wire at servo.
If the above points have continuity, then that means that the DSAB circuit through the control board is good too.
Also make sure that DSAB-A and DSAB-B are not shorted together or to ground.

With everything connected and power on, there should be 12vdc between the RED and BLACK wires at the AP74 and at the SERVOS.
Joe
 
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Alright, so I finally got a chance to check all the wiring that you both mentioned.

I DID find my AP Disconnect button was put in wrong, but not in a way that affected the problem.

Everything else seemed to work for the roll servo (didn't pull the pitch servo), except for this bit:
D-180 EFIS-25-D-Sub-connector-pin 4 and AP74 pin 3 and YEL harness wire at servo.
D-180 EFIS-25-D-Sub-connector-pin 5 and AP74 pin 16 and BLU harness wire at servo.
Click to expand...

The AP74 pins tested perfect, however the EFIS WH-RV-12-OPTIONAL 25 pin connector doesn't have the pins in the right place! According to the wiring diagram from SteinAir:

AP74 Pin 3 goes to 8, AP74 Pin 16 goes to 16. In my case, pin 4 does something different it looks, and pin 5 doesn't exist! Did I miss putting this in, or do I have a different wiring setup than you guys?
 
AutoPilot wiring

Erich,
If you do have a different wiring setup, then that is why it doesn't work.
In order for me to understand how your plane is wired, I need more details. Whenever you mention a pin, I need to know what connector that you are talking about. You said, "AP74 Pin 16 goes to 16". I do not know where that second "16" is located.
Repeat the continuity checks from my previous post (that you quoted) WITHOUT disconnecting or measuring any connectors on Van's control board. There should be continuity from the back of the Dynon D-180 to the back of the AP-74 to the servos.
I am sorry for the confusion. But it is harder to communicate in writing than it is in person.
Joe
 
Mich48041 said:
Erich,
If you do have a different wiring setup, then that is why it doesn't work.
In order for me to understand how your plane is wired, I need more details. Whenever you mention a pin, I need to know what connector that you are talking about. You said, "AP74 Pin 16 goes to 16". I do not know where that second "16" is located.
Repeat the continuity checks from my previous post (that you quoted) WITHOUT disconnecting or measuring any connectors on Van's control board. There should be continuity from the back of the Dynon D-180 to the back of the AP-74 to the servos.
I am sorry for the confusion. But it is harder to communicate in writing than it is in person.
Joe
Click to expand...

Ya, don't I know it:)

I pulled the "Optional" harness out of the AP-74 and the "Optional" plug from under the D180 (actually connected to the board).

I found that the part of the harness that connects into the back of the AP-74 has the correct continuity to at least our roll servo.

I looked at the stienair wiring diagram for the optional harness, and found that the DB-25 that goes into the optional plug doesn't have a pin 5, and that the AP-74 pin 16 goes to pin 16 on that DB-25.

Am I looking at the wrong DB-25?

Also, if it helps, the D-180 keeps saying it is in 'standalone' mode. Should it be discovering the compass through this as well? We haven't moved the plane enough to know, and it is entirely possible that it faces 359 degrees.
 
Wired Wrong?

Erich,
If I understand correctly, AP74 pin 16 is going to Optional pin 16. That is not wired correctly.

AP74 pin 4 connects to Optional pin 16 (RED 12 volts)
AP74 pin 17 connects to Optional pin 11 (BLACK Ground)
AP74 pin 3 connects to Optional pin 8 (YELLOW DSAB-A)
AP74 pin 16 connects to Optional pin 7 (BLUE DSAB-B)
AP74 pin 25 connects to Optional pin 19 (ORANGE Audio)
If your wires are not connected as above, give Stein a call 877 783 4624 to verify that the harness is wired incorrectly and that it is ok to change it.

Am I looking at the wrong DB-25?
Click to expand...
The 25-pin D-Sub that I referred to in previous posts connects to the back of the Dynon FliteDeck D-180, not the control board.
Joe
 
Mich48041 said:
Erich,
If I understand correctly, AP74 pin 16 is going to Optional pin 16. That is not wired correctly.

AP74 pin 4 connects to Optional pin 16 (RED 12 volts)
AP74 pin 17 connects to Optional pin 11 (BLACK Ground)
AP74 pin 3 connects to Optional pin 8 (YELLOW DSAB-A)
AP74 pin 16 connects to Optional pin 7 (BLUE DSAB-B)
AP74 pin 25 connects to Optional pin 19 (ORANGE Audio)
If your wires are not connected as above, give Stein a call 877 783 4624 to verify that the harness is wired incorrectly and that it is ok to change it.


The 25-pin D-Sub that I referred to in previous posts connects to the back of the Dynon FliteDeck D-180, not the control board.
Joe
Click to expand...

I have the wiring harness sheet at home, and I'll have to take a look at it.

Just to clarify: There is the optional harness which connects from the AP-74, to the control board slot under the D180, and then continues into the body harness, right?

I'm not particularly sure which 25 Pin D-180 D-sub you are talking about, the only 25 pin one that I can remember at the moment is either to the body harness, or to the EGT sensors.
 
Ok, thanks! I have been testing the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (MAIN DSUB), but it looks like you guys meant I should test continuity to

WH-RV12-DYNON
(EFIS 25 PIN D-SUB)?
 
Good idea John

That is a great idea John Jetguy. I should have been using Van's part numbers but I was too lazy to get out the plans and look them up. Unfortunately Van's part numbers are confusing too.

In my previous post #15 above I was referring to WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (AP-74 D-SUB) on the back of the AP74, NOT (MAIN D-SUB). See page 42-03.
And I was referring to WH-RV12-DYNON (EFIS 25 PIN D-SUB) on the back of the D-180. See page 42-05.

In my previous post #19 above, I was referring to WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (AP-74 D-SUB) on the back of the AP74, and to the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (MAIN D-SUB), both on page 42-03.

Ok, thanks! I have been testing the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (MAIN DSUB), but it looks like you guys meant I should test continuity to
WH-RV12-DYNON (EFIS 25 PIN D-SUB)?
Click to expand...
Yes, for my post #15.

Joe
 
Mich48041 said:
That is a great idea John Jetguy. I should have been using Van's part numbers but I was too lazy to get out the plans and look them up. Unfortunately Van's part numbers are confusing too.

In my previous post #15 above I was referring to WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (AP-74 D-SUB) on the back of the AP74, NOT (MAIN D-SUB). See page 42-03.
And I was referring to WH-RV12-DYNON (EFIS 25 PIN D-SUB) on the back of the D-180. See page 42-05.

In my previous post #19 above, I was referring to WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (AP-74 D-SUB) on the back of the AP74, and to the WH-RV12-OPTIONAL (MAIN D-SUB), both on page 42-03.


Yes, for my post #15.

Joe
Click to expand...



Ah, ok... post 19 matches the test-report I have from steinAir which had looked correct at the time. What I did have an issue with was that the diagram is a little confusing...

Anyway, I'll go back and look at #15 when I get to the hangar tomorrow, thanks for your help.
 
Alright, so I went through the whole harness that relates to those two, and the wiring seems fine to the servos.

HOWEVER, I found that when unplugging the roll servo (power or either DSAB wire) that the EFIS discovered 3 items rather than just 1! It found the other servo and the AP74!

So, does this mean I have a bad servo? Could it just need a software update for that servo? If so, what do I need to do?
 
Erich,

First a caveat: I'm not an RV-12 guy, and don't know if any of the following recommendations are in accordance with the LSA build rules...all just for your consideration (they stem from a recent DSAB/servo experience, which I'll describe after the recommendations).

Based on this latest result (3 of 4 devices ID'd in the config), you might now consider a couple more tests.

1. Reconnect the roll servo and disconnect the pitch servo, and see if 3 devices are ID'd...would be really weird, but something to eliminate as a problem.

2. Then try swapping the servos, to see if the problem follows the servo or stays with the wiring...i.e.:

2a. Will a DSAB Config only ID 1 item if both servos are connected (in their new positions)?

2b. If you then remove the new pitch servo (the old roll servo), will it then show 3 of 4 again? That means the problem followed the servo.

2c. If you then reconnect both servos and then disconnect the roll servo (the old pitch servo), does it ID 3 of 4 again? If 2c happens and 2b does not, the problem seems to be in the wiring...perhaps.

My recent story is that in my condition inspection, I found my EDC-10 (remote compass) had popped off its rivets and come off its little shelf. I re-riveted it (non-ferrous rivets) and it went nutso on me. Multiple compass cals failed and it just didn't work...period.

How this relates to your issue is that during the multiple compass cals and DSAB configs I did that day, I lost contact with my AP-74 and both servos. A DSAB config regained my AP-74 and roll servo, but I could not re-establish contact with my pitch servo. It only saw 4 devices instead of 5...every time...very frustrating, as you know.

Dynon sent out a new EDC-10 and a new servo (SV-32), and the new compass install regained its function (turned out the old one failed internally...perhaps I jiggled it or dropped it when messing with it...don't think so, but no biggie, Dynon took care of me on it). Superfluous data to your issue, just FYI.

On the servo, after checking all the wiring to the pitch servo, and trying the old servo again (with no joy), I electrically connected the new pitch servo and did a DSAB config. The DSAB config saw the new servo (saw all 5 devices), so I figured it was indeed a bad servo. Just to be sure, I put the old servo back on, and guess what...the DSAB config saw it, and saw all 5 devices...multiple times! And it has now flown several hours...all good.

I may have been able to do the same thing by swapping my servos, so thus my above recommendation to you. Perhaps putting another servo on that line will "wake it up", or whatever happened in my case.

Another thought is that if your servos are on different firmware updates, then perhaps putting each one in the pitch servo position (where apparently it can be detected), and doing a detect firmware, if they are on different updates, then you can do a firmware update to the D180 and can push 5.4 to both servos, one at a time. Maybe then you'll be able to see 4 of 4 devices in a DSAB config.

Just some thoughts for you...hope they aren't too random or confusing! :rolleyes:

Good luck!

Cheers,
Bob
 
That is definitely an interesting story... based on the wiring diagram I think that the fact that the pitch servo works proves that the roll servo is wired correctly.

According to the diagram, (and my observations) it seems like the fact that the pitch servo works would 'prove' that the roll wiring is correct, since all the wires to the pitch servo are just pigtailed off the wires to the roll servo.

I tried having the pitch servo unplugged and it only found 1 device (or 2 devices if both servos were unplugged). So the only one that changed anything was removing the roll servo plugs.

The software versions problem is one we were thinking of for a few reasons:
1- Servos are pretty simple bits of solid-state hardware, they ought to be fairly simple to manufacture properly and also be difficult to damage without external damage
2- others have had sync problems as well. The D180 shipped with 5.4, but I've never been able to software update with the servos connected.
 
My servos are wired the same as yours...pitch servo pigtailed to roll servo, then to EFIS (mine is a D100 though). What you say sounds correct to me (if the pitch servo is visible to the network when wired like this, that means the roll servo should be visible too).

Might be worth swapping the servos to see what the DSAB network config shows then. A pain if they are mechanically installed...but it would eliminate a bogey.

FWIW, for firmware updates, the servos and the AP-74 are updated when you update the bus master EFIS (the only EFIS in your case). The detect firmware option also detects the AP-74 and servo firmware when you run the detect firmware on the bus master EFIS. That's why I was thinking if the servo swap doesn't bring both servos online together, if you put each in the pitch servo position one at a time, you may be able to check each one's firmware separately, and update them if either are earlier than 5.4. The network just needs to see the servo first, thus the thought of trying each one in the pitch position.

One last thought...if not already done, make sure the connections, crimps, butt-splices (or whatever they are) are good between the pigtail location and the roll servo...one bad connection would be a deal-breaker.

Just hoping to help you stumble into a solution!! :) Fun stuff, eh! :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Bob
 
Went back and read thru the thread. Ensure all of the pins are solidly seated in the connectors. Brantel mentioned this, but there was no confirmation that you checked all of the pins. I had a problem with one of the intercom audio pins due to this. It looked seated, but if you pushed on it, the pin moved.
 
I can tell you without a doubt that items with 5.3 will talk to items with 5.4 and vice versa. This is not recommended but it will talk. A version mismatch like that would not cause you to not be able to see the device.
 
Bad Servo?

Confirm that the yellow harness wire is spliced to the green servo wire. If wired correctly and all connections are good, I suspect a bad servo. Ask Dynon customer support for their advice.
Joe
 
Mich48041 said:
Confirm that the yellow harness wire is spliced to the green servo wire. If wired correctly and all connections are good, I suspect a bad servo. Ask Dynon customer support for their advice.
Joe
Click to expand...

Ok, looks like that is what I'm going to do! I'm sure it is wired correctly, we pulled it apart a good 1/2 dozen times trying to make sure it was right!
 
Brantel said:
I can tell you without a doubt that items with 5.3 will talk to items with 5.4 and vice versa. This is not recommended but it will talk. A version mismatch like that would not cause you to not be able to see the device.
Click to expand...

Concur Brian...wasn't try to insinuate otherwise. Just trying to help eliminate all possible bogey's. Not sure why the swap-in, swap-out brought mine back, but trons are black magic, so thought it might be worth trying. Checking firmware levels was just a side-benefit thought. Hopin' Erich finds it soon!! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
Thanks very much for everyone's help! At the moment I'm talking with Mike from Dynon, hopefully he either has a quick fix for it, or can exchange it for me. I'll keep you updated.
 
What was the final outcome?

Did Erich solve his problem? I'm just curious what the final solution was.
 
Thanks for the reminder! We discovered that even though the servo passed their 'repair' that it was still messing up the communication wires, so the replacement servo worked perfectly. Basically just an exchange on that fixed everything.
 
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