J

Jello53

I'm New Here
Hi guys,

I've been drooling over the idea of building an RV for some time now. However, I have no piloting experience. Is it unreasonable for me to think that I can build an RV, take a flight course at the same time, and then transition to my completed RV with only 25-30 hours of total flight time experience, in a Cessna 152?

Would I be better off buildilng an RV-9 than an RV-7 since it is less responsive?

I'd like to hear your recommendations on this.

Regards,

JP
 
You could learn to fly in your RV. There is no reason that you could not fly an RV with minimum flying experience.
 
Welcome,
good question too.
I'll give you my experience for what it's worth.
I trained on Piper low-wings back in the 80's, then Cessna's later, about 35 hours in each. ( don't ask why).
When it came time to buy a plane, and get RE-trained, I went for what I was most comfortable with, and could find an instructor and insurance for.

Try flying as many aircraft as you can. I liked the Glastar, but not the visibility up and out. I tried an RV-6a, and loved the vis, but found it a little 'hot' for my conservative tastes, or comfort level.
In the -9a, I was comfortable right away, and the approach speeds reminded me of the trainers I had flown. Even now with only about 20 hours on my -9a, it's hard to make a bad landing; there's always a little bit of roll control and rudder left to straighten out or pitch up when needed.
I may get tired of it one day, and want to go looping round the sky, but for now it is a perfect fit.

best of luck with your choice!
 
Jello53 said:
Would I be better off buildilng an RV-9 than an RV-7 since it is less responsive?


JP
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Oh boy....here we go again!!! ;)

To answer your question, I see no reason why a guy couldn't transition from a C152 to an RV fairly easily with some qualitiy instruction. Its probably a good game plan to learn the basics in someone else's (rental) airplane.....and get most of those less-than-perfect landings behind you. Go for it!

CDE
 
Norman CYYJ said:
You could learn to fly in your RV. There is no reason that you could not fly an RV with minimum flying experience.
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However, your insurance company may not like it.

There is a guy at my airport who got his PPL and then bought an RV-7 w/o any tailwheel time.

He had to get something like 40 hours of duel in it before the insurance company would let him solo it and that was with his PPL. Insurance was over $3K, if I remember right. After the first year, his rates came down in line with the rest of us.
 
Yes, but...

Hi JP-
Yes, you could do what you suggest, but there are a couple things you would need to think about:

1. Will you be able to find a CFI willing to finish your training in YOUR experimental. (Should be, but it will limit your pool of possible CFI's somewhat).

2. I continued to "abuse" the trainers with all of my hard landings all the way through my flight training. Do you want to do so on your pride and joy?

3. Do you really know that you are going to like flying? Some people start but find out it's not as much their cup of tea as they though it was.

4. Do you know that you are really going to be able to afford flying? Taking a few lessons is very manageable financially, though even that can significantly impact the family budget. Building and owning a plane takes a LOT more $$. Definitely at least get the lessons under your belt to know whether or not it's going to be financially possible.

5. My opinion: until you have a couple hundred hours under your belt, you don't really know what you want in a plane. This is true particularly regarding C/S or fixed-pitch prop, what you want in the panel, etc. It would be a bummer to build a very expensive plane only to find out that it wasn't what you really needed, wanted, or could afford.

That said, I'd encourage you to start your flight training at your local FBO ASAP and keep thinking on the building idea.

Good luck.
 
They've said it all. Before you invest $50,000-$150,000 and several years of your life, find out if you will really use it enough to matter. You can rent or buy - great deals out there on trainers. To best simulate an RV, I would recommend learning in an AA-1 (if you can find one).

Good luck!
 
Welcome to VAF!!!!

JP, welcome to the Force.

Yes, you can learn in a RV.

I have a friend who learned in a 9, that she bought flying.

If she can do it, you can too.
 
Thank you all for your input, many valid points/questions have been brought to my attention.

For me the building part itself seems like half the fun! I've always been attracted to big DIY projects and this one just hits the spot. If I embark in this project, it will be a 2-person operation, one of my good friends has shown interest in a partnership, which would split the workload and the financial responsibility.

Lots of food for thought, that's for sure!
 
Jello53 said:
Thank you all for your input, many valid points/questions have been brought to my attention.

For me the building part itself seems like half the fun! I've always been attracted to big DIY projects and this one just hits the spot. If I embark in this project, it will be a 2-person operation, one of my good friends has shown interest in a partnership, which would split the workload and the financial responsibility.

Lots of food for thought, that's for sure!
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Before you go too far, especially before you would start building, make sure you can get a medical certificate.
 
No disrespect meant here but if someones is giving advice about flying an RV they should at least list thier qualifications to do so. Many posters here are still in the building process and may or may not have flown an RV short of a quick demo ride.
Cheers
Tom
 
Good point, Tom.....

....but there's more. Personally, I'd like to see enough hours to be near the PPL checkride before transitioning to an RV of any sort. These little airplanes aren't hard to fly but they're not the most forgiving of screwups. Bad landings end up with inverted airplanes in some cases and/or runway excursions because of faulty rudder use.

They're hotrods and keep you on your toes and we have no idea of the poster's abilities. Do you have really good eye-hand-foot coordination or are you clumsy? We don't know his abilities/disabilities, so an objective answer is difficult.

My .02,
 
good points Pierre...

Easy airplanes to fly, that's for sure, but a bit spindly on the gear. Probably best to get proficent in a spam can first, and then get some transition training from you!! Smackdown landings not recommended in an RV!! That being said, there are a few folks out there that have learned how to fly in an RV, so we know for a fact that it can be done.

Also, some transition training from a good instructor will really help you understand the unique (but not difficult to master) characteristics of the RV series.

Shameless plug for you Pierre.

Took me about 30 hours or so to really learn the plane, and all that it can and cannot do. But, that was really fun stuff.

All the best,
Chris
 
A wee bit early in my opinion.

I consider a C172 or a Piper 140 a 4 mistake airplane. Much better suited to a low time pilot. Insurance rates are directly proportional to accident reports.

I consider a RV a 2 mistake airplane. Less forgiving on mistakes.

Think of this way. The RV is a sports car and the C172 is the family sedan. Would you put a 16 year old behind the wheel of a Corvette?
 
but you won't be a new pilot...

if you're motivated to go out and fly, you'd probably have little trouble putting in another hundred hours between getting your PPL and getting your RV airworthy. Add transition training and you should be good to go.

if you're not that motivated to fly, is airplane ownership for you?

maybe building for its own sake is enough - but when you hit a roadblock or a setback, will you have enough motivation to get back to the shop? and do it tonight, not "maybe next week for sure"?

credentials? me, I'm a month into my RV-10 build and just ordered SB wings, and haven't yet soloed - barely ten hours in my logbook. :eek: I'm thinking of buying a trainer while the prices are low, so I can afford to keep learning after I get my ticket.

--
Nate Lewis
RV-10 #938 emp - holy clecos!
 
Good idea, Nate...

nlewis said:
.......... I'm thinking of buying a trainer while the prices are low, so I can afford to keep learning after I get my ticket.

--
Nate Lewis
RV-10 #938 emp - holy clecos!
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Since right now is a serious buyer's market. By the time the economy recovers, you'd be near done and you may even make a little profit on the resell:)

Good idea,
 
Jello53 said:
Thank you all for your input, many valid points/questions have been brought to my attention.

For me the building part itself seems like half the fun! I've always been attracted to big DIY projects and this one just hits the spot. If I embark in this project, it will be a 2-person operation, one of my good friends has shown interest in a partnership, which would split the workload and the financial responsibility.

Lots of food for thought, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

I built my RV-10 with a partner and it has been great. I started building months before I even took my first lesson. I had never even seen an RV when we ordered the kit. I took my friends word and away we went. I started my lessons and got my PPL in three months and accumulated approx. 200 hrs before flying my plane. The last 100 hrs were in a Grumman Tiger which is what I would call an RV-10 light. I would suggest taking lessons and joining a club or buying a C-150 while building. RV's are very easy to fly but they can also get you in trouble a lot faster. Good Luck and go for it!
 
pierre smith said:
....but there's more. Personally, I'd like to see enough hours to be near the PPL checkride before transitioning to an RV of any sort. These little airplanes aren't hard to fly but they're not the most forgiving of screwups. Bad landings end up with inverted airplanes in some cases and/or runway excursions because of faulty rudder use.

They're hotrods and keep you on your toes and we have no idea of the poster's abilities. Do you have really good eye-hand-foot coordination or are you clumsy? We don't know his abilities/disabilities, so an objective answer is difficult.

My .02,
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Good points Pierre,

In my case, I bought a flying RV from a friend, flew it with him and did some transition training with Jan Bussell, as recommended by my seller/buddy. For an experience frame of reference, this is with 30 years of flying a number of different aircraft types, but with a long time since my last TW flight...and a humble and healthy respect for all things airplane...parked my ego at the hangar door.

My friend's comment was, "do you want to go out and practice RV landings in your new baby, or do you want to work out the kinks in another airplane (with the wheel pants off and with a guy that expects some colorful landings in the early goin')". The choice was simple, with my money goin' on the table for an airplane!

Relating this to the OP's question, I'd just say to add the impact on your new RV (bought or built) that the learning process will have, when considering what path to follow. Not saying it can't be done, just weigh the cost of a little "beating up" of your RV versus doing the same to a rental while you learn the basics, while you consider the safety aspects (a more important consideration for sure) of learning in a "vette versus a sedan" (that was a good line!)

Cheers,
Bob
 
Mike S said:
Have you ever flown in an RV???
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I have never flown in an RV. I will see if I can contact a local owner when spring arrives, there are a few in my extended region (Quebec, Canada has only 4 registered flying RVs according to the VAF White Pages).

JHines said:
Before you go too far, especially before you would start building, make sure you can get a medical certificate.
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Thanks for the tip Jonathan, I will certainly look into that before going too far. I am optimistic their will be no problem on that level.

What is becoming apparent to me is that I would indeed benefit from flight experience prior to build. Pierre brought up a good point about hand-eye-foot coordination. I believe I am a well-coordinated person but then I have no reference point, i.e. my "good" coordination may only be sufficient only for an "unresponsive" aircraft, I don't know. Whatever the case, it does seems like sound advice to practice in a sedan first. :eek:
 
yes

JP, Yes it can be done. I taught and soloed a guy a few months back where we did all of his instruction in a RV-6 that he built before he had any flight training. Yes it did take longer to solo in the RV-6 than it would have in a C-150...but who cares? After a bit of solo time, he then went on to build a 50' x 60' hangar for the -6 (plus a couple others) and recently got back into flying regularly. Just this weekend we did a long-cross country and he's well on his way to his private. Yes, all of the flight training will be in his taildragger RV-6. I guess that's the long way of saying here is some proof positive that it can be done. Not too common for sure, but yes it can be done. Best to you, -Jim
 
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Hey fehdxl / Jim,
How did that work with the 40 hour test phase? Did your student have to hire somebody to fly off those hours before he could start training in his plane?
 
kritsher said:
How did that work with the 40 hour test phase? Did your student have to hire somebody to fly off those hours before he could start training in his plane?
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Yes, myself and another guy flew the 40 hours off solo. He had to twist my arm realy hard. Wink Wink. Once the 40 hours was over, his kids and wife actually got a ride before he did.
 
I started building.....

my 7A as a freshly minted Private Pilot with ~100 hours. I bought an older, very clean C172 with only 13 hours as a student. Hadn't even soloed yet, but I knew that this was for me. I kept the Cessna to fly (several people told me, "Sell the Cessna, every hour you're flying, you're not building" (Rosie) and by the time I finished the RV (6 years) I had logged 830 hours in the C172. After one take-off and two landings in a friends -9A I made my own first flight in the -7A THAT I BUILT!. Probably not the smartest thing that I've done in my life but it worked for me. The point I'm trying to make in a round-a-bout way is that, if you don't have something to fly while you're building, you may never finish the project. At least, that's the way it was for me. My build took a bit longer than some, but if I hadn't been flying regularly during the build, I'm almost certain that I would've lost interest; or at least motivation. No regrets. And now, after 100 hours it's easier to land than a Cessna. I also have to regurgitate other builders' conclusions: "If I'd have known how much fun it would be to fly, I'd have finished it two years sooner!"
 
I bought a Cessna 120 after I got my PPL,over 200 hours in less than 2 years.Learned alot about flying and what type of flying I enjoy.Seams like most wanna be pilots thinks flying is a family afair.My wife has flown with me TWICE! and my kid flys about 6 times a year ,I fly 3 times a week!!!Also until you start flying it's hard decide what type of plane to buy.After 200 hours of flight I started a RV 8.(tailwheel)It wil suit my mission ,fast ,fun,acro,center line seating.Buy a cheap plane to fly before you start building,get some time meet other pilots get to fly other types of planes ,heck your mission might be a Super Cub ,You Never Know.
 
g zero said:
I bought a Cessna 120 after I got my PPL,over 200 hours in less than 2 years.Learned alot about flying and what type of flying I enjoy.Seams like most wanna be pilots thinks flying is a family afair.My wife has flown with me TWICE! and my kid flys about 6 times a year
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Then I suppose I feel good, that my wife likes flying in the plane as much as I do! It's the same with a couple of other friends, and their spouses too. A lot of cross country or 100 - 150 mile brunch flights on Sunday.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
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