[gmcjetpilot]

From Dougs Thread about the CAFE Foundation tests of RV9A, posted in the RV-9 group. If you don't know what the Cafe foundation is check them out at:http://www.cafefoundation.org

We'd all love to see a true "consumer reports" entity that independently tests homebuilt designs. CAFE used to fill this role, but there seems to be some sort of friction between them and EAA, and reports in Sport Aviation have disappeared. I'd be interested to know how this magazine -- I'd never heard of it -- got hold of the CAFE report.

I know what is going on because I wrote EAA and asked.

The problem is EAA decided to NOT fund the Cafe Foundation anymore (at this time?) or print their reports. If you are a long time member you have noticed Sport Aviation magazine prints fluff articles, which are nothing more than extended advertisement for a product, with an occasional builder profile.

I wrote Tom Poberezny and he did reply (Tom Poberezny: [email protected] )

My email to him stated that the technical content of Sport Aviation was getting thin (dummied down) and that the Cafe Foundation was a fantastic resource, which was of great use and interest to builders.​

His reply was nice but stated or implied that they where writing for the common denominator of the members, who might not understand the technical articles. The other members I assume are Bonanza and Cessna Drivers. Not that they are not smart but just not interested.​

Ughaaaa I thought it was the EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION!!! EXPERIMENTAL Tom.

Sad but true, EAA is turning into the AOPA and the magazine is more like "Flying". I understand Tom and Paul are running a business. Even more sad is the EAA underestimates the abilities and intelligence of their members to understand the info. May be they got a lot of member noise about "What are all these graphs about these toy kit planes? We want more real stories about Gyro-Copters on floats."


After writing the EAA SA editor about technical inaccuracies in two of their articles, they asked if I would want to write an article? He also said they are going thru changes and looking for input. Obviously they are desperate for articles if they would ask me. If you want to write an article, the EAA might be happy to print it in SA.

RV builder Dan C. (RV-7 builder/aviator/web master extrodinare ) wrote an article for SA? (I have not seen it yet.) That is great.

I love the EAA and have been a member for almost 20 years, and probably will be a member for another 40 years. If we write the EAA and make enough noise we can get the Caf? Foundation Test's back.

The more "Groups" the better for the EAA and their income. I understand and happen to love all planes of all kinds, more the merrier. Experimental aircraft is only a part of their membership. Vintage, Antiques, Classics, Contemporarily factory planes, Aerobatic, Military, ultralights, Powered parachute, gyro copters, helicopter, gliders, hang gliders and sea planes is the EAA membership today. Oh yes, also experimental kit planes. The days of detailed building articles and flight test data for experimental aircraft in EAA's Sport Aviation may be gone.

I am sure their main intent is to include everyone, but in the process they have lost their core identity and made it so diluted it is not meaningful to anyone. You can see they are trying to expand their reach by their "special memberships" to please the War Birds, Vintage or Aerobatic groups. May be they will start a special EEAA group: "Experimental Experimental Aircraft Association", dedicated to kit and homebuilt planes.

Cheers George

PS: The AirVenture air show has no experimental aircraft. Their reason is they say they get the experimental aircraft in a ?show case? earlier in the day. The "Show case" allows anyone to fly his or her experimental plane in a racetrack pattern around the field and down the flight line runway after a briefing in the morning. It is a small pattern that is bank angle and speed limited. It is usually crowded with other aircraft and not real fun or relaxed to fly. You are constantly turning to stay within fly-by pattern boundry and looking for other planes, who can do wacko stuff. I did it once and that was enough. I would love to see some RV aerobatic routine or even a Rocket or Lancair high-speed pass. Van use to do aerobatics in a RV-4. He is quite the stick. That is why his designs are what they are, he is an excellent pilot as well as a designer.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

If only CAFE made some product like Ford or John Deere that could be heavily advertised in Sport Aviation, by a company that could drop a was of cash on the EAA in various marketing deals...then maybe Poberezny would give a rip about CAFE reports.

Kitplanes (and that's what Dan is writing for I think) is poised to become the replacement to SportAviation/EAA as a clearinghouse for homebuilders. Especially since Marc Cook (former AOPA editor) is the new editor at Kitplanes.

EAA just has a new role to play. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. It's still a source of help for homebuilders but if it ended up moving from Oshkosh to Washington someday, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. Poberezny wants to run with a faster crowd than a bunch of rivet bangers like us.

 

[kevinh]

Not really 'our' organization

Yes.

At a national level the EAA isn't a true representative organization. Have you noticed the small print on your BOD ballots every year? Something to the effect of "every ballot distributed (i.e. huge mass mailing to all the members) but not cast by the member, is implicitly proxied to the current BOD to allocate."

This is the sort of false democracy that some coops use. It depends on the vast majority of members not casting their ballot, therefore the BOD always ends up de facto picking the new BOD members. There is no way the small % of members who actually vote can make a difference.

This is from memory, and it could be incorrect but I don't have a current ballot here to check.

I still support the national EAA because they lobby for us, but I really only care about my local chapter.

Kevin

 

[Bob Axsom]

On the Balance EAA is Great

All of these magazines are month to month production efforts and they have to have some formula to sustain a substantive product that will be anticipated by the readers. They all want the best content and reader loyalty, blah, blah, blah. It's a compromise game and good writers and editors are often not very technical folks in the wrench turning sense - their tools are words and their technical skills are very good in their field. I never look to a magazine for anything more than bathroom reading material so my main function is to keep my mind in the aviation game while I am otherwise disposed. I used to LOVE the in depth articles written by Jack Cox when he was running the magazine but his latest effort on the round engined speedster was shallow - like it had been heavily filtered or he had lost the fire. Currently the magazine I look forward to reading each month is Plane & Pilot and the writer that I look to first is Budd Davisson. But more on the point - I do not think the CAFE effort makes a whole lot of sense as an ongoing funded activity and I would not want the FAA to get the idea that CAFE could serve as some kind of screening function that they would fund. There is not a whole lot of mystery about the best designs - the market place tells that story loud and clear. Performance numbers with a given design vary from builder to builder and the CAFE approach to take one builder's plane with all of its peculiarities and rigorously test it and report the results is interesting to me for a very small set of airplanes (I have the RV-6A report). An opportunity may be missed with the new LSA products hitting the market in a flurry but whether CAFE is responsive enough to do any good there is unknown. The market is just too small to justify the activity or its cost it seems to me. I hear what you and Van are saying but I for one do not share your concern about the decay of the EAA or the greatness of the CAFE. A CAFE like test and report of an RV-10 would be of huge interest - even to me but supporting the effort beyond specific tasks like that is impractical. I hope Sport Aviation does not turn into a popular mechanix illustrated experimenter & CFI suppliment kind of thing (now if I could read the articles on how to fly and not have to go through a BFR I would be interested in the latter) but I do miss the reporting of technical details of significance about specific airplanes, especially one of a kind creations. I like the Job being done by the EAA.

Bob Axsom

 

[gmcjetpilot]

EAA is big business

I do miss the reporting of technical details of significance about specific airplanes, especially one of a kind creations. I like the Job being done by the EAA. Bob Axsom

I agree the EAA is a great organization and you can't expect too much from their glossy magazine and even less today. What happened to the EAA magazine "The Experimenter"?

The Cafe foundation is a lost opportunity to improve kit planes and safety. The test on electronic ignition and exhaust systems was pure great. The wax test and prop-less was less of use. More study of safety and accident analysis (like RV's flipping over) would be of great value. What about evaluation of products? magic magnetic oil filter devices, internal antennas, different props and AUTO engines (Subie/Rotary). It would be like "myth busters", but it would not appeal to a wide enough EAA member base. That is why the Cafe Foundation was something that could have turned into something even more useful than claiming a high Triaviation Cafe' score for one model of plane.

The EAA is an international (non-profit) business and encompasses people and pilots from all over the aviation spectrum. They have to appeal to everyone not just experimental kit planes. The more members the more money the EAA takes in. Non-profit? I should start a ?non-profit? tax-free organization like the EAA. (Just kidding Mr. IRS).

Cheers George

Revised: Side by side comparison between Lyc powerd and Auto powered engines of the same model plane would be excellent.

 

[arffguy]

Re: What happened to Experimenter?

Sorry this is not quite on topic. George (and whoever else may care) Experimenter became the new magazine Sport Pilot. I was disappointed that after years of sluffing it off I finally added Experimenter to my membership and then after a couple of issues it showed up as the inaugural issue of Sport Pilot. It seems to be all LSA oriented now. Also the news section is darned near a repeat of the Sport Aviation news section. It is an OK magazine but not so interesting I wanted to renew it. So when my renewal came up I did not pay the extra twenty bucks and EAA said I was "past due." I sent them a note saying that I was not "past due" and that I didn't want the new version. Nothing more came of it.

 

[mlw450802]

Sorry this is not quite on topic. George (and whoever else may care) Experimenter became the new magazine Sport Pilot. I was disappointed that after years of sluffing it off I finally added Experimenter to my membership and then after a couple of issues it showed up as the inaugural issue of Sport Pilot. It seems to be all LSA oriented now. Also the news section is darned near a repeat of the Sport Aviation news section. It is an OK magazine but not so interesting I wanted to renew it. So when my renewal came up I did not pay the extra twenty bucks and EAA said I was "past due." I sent them a note saying that I was not "past due" and that I didn't want the new version. Nothing more came of it.

Same here.
I renewed online and chose to eliminate Sport Pilot because I originally received and wanted Experimenter .

I also was dunned as being "past due" a few months later.

It ticks me off!

-Mike

 

[ddurakovich]

EAA just has a new role to play. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. It's still a source of help for homebuilders but if it ended up moving from Oshkosh to Washington someday, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. Poberezny wants to run with a faster crowd than a bunch of rivet bangers like us.

How very true. Almost seems to be the natural evolution of an organization. Once a certain 'critical mass' is achieved, it seems to take on a life of it's own!

I suspect that the size and profitability of Airventure may have provided that 'critical mass'! For that reason alone I doubt you will see a move to Washington. However, there's nothing to say that Tom might not at some point?

Might be about time for the next "association" to be formed to represent us rivet bangers"?