T

tdaf22

I'm New Here
Hey guys, ive been following this forum for the past year and i have finally come to the point where i would like to buy an RV. I have run across an rv-6a that i would like to buy but i need to know how i would need to go through the process of getting it registered. The situation: I purchased it on ebay, the aircraft is ready to fly but has not been registered yet. THe aircraft was built by a professional professional build assist program. The actually "builder" (owner) of the aircraft does not have any build logs only engine logs, props logs and reciepts. How does one go about getting this plane registered as an experimental?

thanks,

TOmmy
 
tdaf22 said:
Hey guys, ive been following this forum for the past year and i have finally come to the point where i would like to buy an RV. I have run across an rv-6a that i would like to buy but i need to know how i would need to go through the process of getting it registered. The situation: I purchased it on ebay, the aircraft is ready to fly but has not been registered yet. THe aircraft was built by a professional professional build assist program. The actually "builder" (owner) of the aircraft does not have any build logs only engine logs, props logs and reciepts. How does one go about getting this plane registered as an experimental?

thanks,

TOmmy
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One thing your post wasn't clear about:

Are you considering purchasing this aircraft or have you already purchased it?

The absence of a build log and where/how it was built is going to complicate getting it certificated.
 
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Since the only way that an Experiemntal can be registered in the U.S. as an AEB if it was buit for "Eductaion and Recreation", this hasthe look and smell of somethign fishy, if the FAA decided to look into it. The best thing to do is have the builder license it, in his name, with HIM signing the form attesting that he built for E&R...then you have no liability towards purgery. You couldn't imagine how you could sign that you built it for E&R.

Remember that high level FAA guys in the experiemntal regulation world read this site BTW...
 
tdaf22 said:
The situation: I purchased it on ebay, the aircraft is ready to fly but has not been registered yet. THe aircraft was built by a professional professional build assist program. The actually "builder" (owner) of the aircraft does not have any build logs only engine logs, props logs and reciepts. How does one go about getting this plane registered as an experimental?
Click to expand...

Registration is not an issue. You just file some papers and send in a few bucks. The problem is obtaining an E-AB airworthiness certificate.

The correct, legal, by-the-numbers method has the real builder (in this case the professional who actually built the airplane) personally applying for a registration certificate, then filing an application for an airworthiness certificate with supporting forms, and subsequently having it inspected by a DAR or FAA inspector who grants the certificate. The airplane may then be sold without complication, as the airworthiness certificate goes with it. You just file for a new registration in your name.

The shaky-but-common-as-dirt method is for the "builder" (the guy who wrote checks but did little or no work) to apply for and receive the registration and airworthiness certificates. To do so he must lie on a particular form which says he did 51%, and he may need to gin up some photos and build logs for the sake of appearance. If he gets the E-AB certificate, fine. Like it or not, there of lots of airplanes flying via this plan.

(Special note...I have friends on all sides of the game. I take no personal position.)

In this case you don't have any way to demonstrate you built it, or that the guy you're buying it from built it. There is no legal way to obtain an E-AB certificate on your own. Can you get your money back?
 
ok, thanks for the input. I have not paid the fellow yet but i was under the influence that there was proof that 51% of the aircraft was built by builder/ owner. There may be i just haven't been provided with adequate information yet. If there is proof that the builder did 51% of the work can I still be the one that registers it or does he need to register it? I have not paid anything yet i just was the winner of the auction. i voiced my concerns before auction close.
 
tdaf22 said:
ok, thanks for the input. I have not paid the fellow yet but i was under the influence that there was proof that 51% of the aircraft was built by builder/ owner. There may be i just haven't been provided with adequate information yet. If there is proof that the builder did 51% of the work can I still be the one that registers it or does he need to register it? I have not paid anything yet i just was the winner of the auction. i voiced my concerns before auction close.
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The aircraft cannot be certificated until after it is registered.
The builder must sign and have notarized an 8130-12 which states that the aircraft was built for education or recreation.
This statement of eligibility states on the form that any false, fictitious or fraudulent statement, misrepresentation or entry, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism, imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.
Many people don't take this seriously. They SHOULD! It is a federal offense.

Personally, I would not consider purchasing this aircraft unless the builder registers and gets the aircraft certificated. Otherwise, it can be a real can of worms.
 
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tdaf22 said:
ok, thanks for the input. I have not paid the fellow yet but i was under the influence that there was proof that 51% of the aircraft was built by builder/ owner. There may be i just haven't been provided with adequate information yet. If there is proof that the builder did 51% of the work can I still be the one that registers it or does he need to register it? I have not paid anything yet i just was the winner of the auction. i voiced my concerns before auction close.
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Do not, do not, purchase this airplane until you thoroughly understand the regs concerning registering and receiving an airworthiness certificate and you have received airtight evidence that this was amateur-built. I fear that your lack of background about the regs and the fact this is an eBay auction is leading down a path that you need to avoid. Most legit projects are well known enough in the local RV community that eBay auctions are not needed.

If in doubt contact a local DAR for guidance. Also, it is presently a buyers market and there are many well-built, legal RVs available through private sales.
 
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Thanks for all of the quick responses guys. I did not buy the plane. Way too sketchy. Now back to the classifieds section. Need to find a -6a!
 
airplanes are funny....but hardly anyone laughs!

tdaf22 said:
Thanks for all of the quick responses guys. I did not buy the plane. Way too sketchy. Now back to the classifieds section. Need to find a -6a!
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don't just look at the classifieds!.....as almost any owner will tell you, any plane is for sale, at the right price. Then there are the perhaps 50% that think about selling every winter, whether to start a new project, or get something faster, bigger shinier etc. ( or avoid the impending divorce!)

I found my nice -9a on my local field, it had no sign on it, wasn't advertised, and was only 2 years old, with about 70 hours on it?...there were just rumours around the flying club that the guy was 'thinkin' about selling.

a lot of owners just need 3 inquiries in a row, and suddenly, it's ingrained in their head that they should sell. ( plus you may avoid some of the birds that are for sale due to a lingering but expensive problem, though this may be less common in the RV community, its definitely true in the E-AB and older certified world!)

hey, you did the right thing, you came , you asked, you listened!
congratulate yourself! :)
 
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I saw it on ebay the other day. My guess is that him and his builder didn't cover their bases and he got shot down by the FAA or a DAR. Otherwise he'd just finish it, get it flying then sell it.....
 
There are definitely several nice-looking ones on Barnstormers. Some are not too expensive.

As others may have warned you: Make sure that you get a condition inspection done by a mechanic whom you trust and who is not a friend of the seller. When I set out to buy an RV-6A, the first airplane I looked at seemed fine, just a little corrosion on the screws that hold the fairings on, but that's just cosmetic, right? Well, I then asked the local RV guru (has built several RVs, makes a living working on dozens of Experimentals in the area including mine, is also a CFI and offers transition training) to look at the airplane, and he told me in no uncertain terms: DO NOT BUY IT. He gave me a laundry list of reasons, none of which I would have noticed myself. For example, the owner claimed that the engine had something like 200 hours on it, but then the guy who did the condition inspection said that Lycoming has not built this particular model of engine since the 1970s. So either the owner was lying, or the airplane had sat on the ground for extended periods, or both. Some asking around the local RV community did reveal that the airplane had sat outside for years at one point. So... No thanks!

Lesson learned: Don't take the owner's word for "It's a good airplane!". And best of luck in your search :)
 
Thanks Guys! appreciate the input and the advice. i will be doing my due diligence as i progress.
 
Aerosporty said:
It would be possible to go the Experimental/Exhibition route with such an aircraft.
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That is a good point. However, the operating limitations for an special airworthiness certificate issued for the purpose of operating an experimental exhibition or experimental racing aircraft are usually much more onerous than experimental, amateur-built. As I understand it, you will often see limitations like no passengers except those required crewmembers critical to the purpose of the flight, and you would almost certainly have to file a program letter each year that spells out the racing and exhibition events you are attending or practicing for. Also, the operating limitations issued may confine you to a geographic region relating to those planned events.

Thanks, Bob K.
 
Aerosporty said:
It would be possible to go the Experimental/Exhibition route with such an aircraft.
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If you're referring to the "warbird replica" one, the linked page includes lots of other nice RV-6As too, that one's just near the top. In any case, I had no idea that an RV could count as a "replica warbird"...

Bob Kuykendall said:
The operating limitations for an special airworthiness certificate issued for the purpose of operating an experimental exhibition or experimental racing aircraft are usually much more onerous than experimental amateur-built.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I had no idea. So much for my dreams of someday owning a Reno unlimited racer and taking friends up in it to buzz their houses! (No, not really...)
 
You need to join your local EAA chapter.

In your case, there is one in Rock Hill and one in Charlotte.

There are very good people in both chapters and many members belong to both.

As you found out, this doesn?t sound like a very good deal. Since you are new to EAB?s, you should look at a plane with 100+ hours on it. At least that way you know that most of the kinks may be worked out of it.
 
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