cjensen

Well Known Member
I was just presented with what sounds like a great deal on a Mac Tools soldering iron. A friend of mine bought it for work, has used it twice in the last year or so. Doesn't need it anymore. He wants $50 for it. This is the complete kit in the nice Mac Tools red case. Several tips, solder, extra butane...and so on.

My three questions are...

Am I going to need to solder wires when I get to the wiring point?

Are you guys soldering, or using terminals and screws?

Is this a good deal (if I need it)?

BTW, I DO have a cheap corded soldering iron already, but this being very portable sounds nice...

:confused:
 
I used mine for one job

I bought one from Aircraft Spruce to silver solder the primer nipples on the primer lines. If you seriously considering something like this for electrical work you really need to get some electrical assembly training. I am very serious about this. People at this site have long acknowledged the need for aircraft assembly training - this is the same deal. If you are not prepared before starting electrical work it will end up being a disaster.

Bob Axsom
 
I love my butane iron - have gone through a number of tips, and still find it to be very handy. I like not having the cord in my way. Even though the vast majority of the wiring in m airplane is crimped (and I paid a lot for crimping tools!), there is still some soldering to do. I think mine was only about $30 at my local electronic parts house - no fancy case of course!

And Bob is right about getting training. I had the benefit of being trained by certified aerospace electronics technicians to their standards. They wouldn't let me out of the class until I could do things the way they expected. Good education!

Paul
 
Chad, sounds nice!

DON'T buy it! For all intents and purposes, the corded one is what ya want!

I mean, if you are soldering while out to sea (kinda tough while living in Normal, Illinois!) I could understand getting it and keeping it in the boat.

Most of your wiring will be a short extension cord away from the receptacle!

Spend your loot on seatbelts instead!

;) CJ
 
check radio shack

I found a great little butane iron at RS and I think it was in the $20 range. I wouldn't give it up for anything. I'll never use my corded one again. Don't anyone start the crimp/solder debate! I went both ways myself.
 
No Debate

The aerospace industry gave up on solder joints wherever possible because of operational reliability issues decades ago. I was a member of an American Standard subcommittee for the development of high reliability solder joints when I worked on Project Mercury in the early 1960s. We published a standard but solder joints in a high vibration environment are a bad mix.

Bob Axsom
 
Soldering and Crimps - Good Tools Required.

If you are going to do high performance soldering you need a real, temperature controlled soldering iron with interchangable tips. Good soldering is a skill that is easy enough to master but does take proper tools. Poor connections are the undisputed number one source of problems in electical/electronic systems and soldered connections are no exception.

I've done some field repair with a portable iron (Wahl rechargable, not butane) but its no substitute for a good corded iron. Here's why. When you solder, you first want to have a good mechanical connection.. twisted wires, hooked wires through a terminal etc. Then you want to apply heat to one side of the connection and solder to the OTHER side. When the connection gets hot enough at the solder end, its hot enough throughout and the solder will melt and wick its way through the twisted wires etc and UNITE the wires and terminal et al. The good mechanical connection ensures that the wires will not wiggle while the solder is cooling and you'll get a fine shiny lifetime connneciton.

The secret to successful soldering is heat flow and temperature control. You want to heat up the joint quickly, apply solder and remove the heat as soon as possible to keep from overheating the joint. If your iron applies too much heat, you'll melt wire insulation, plastic housings etc. If it applies too little heat, you'll get a 'cold' joint and you can also melt things as the whole system heats up waiting for the solder to melt. Either way, its bad news.

IMHO, the only way to go for all but the occasional job is a good quality, corded temperature controlled iron with a variety of tips. I have several Weller WTCPN stations with a variety of 700 degree tips, small conicals for small things and the bigger 'screwdriver' tips for large joints. The temperature control idles the tip at 700 degrees when its in the stand then applies LOTS of localized heat when needed. The joint gets soldered and the iron removed before the heat can propagate up the wire, melt insulation etc. Its the only way to go. Like Paul, I'm sure I could get a great joint from just about anything that gets hot (I've done silver soldering with a cutting torch-'nother story) but also like Paul, have had real training (from NASA even! :) .. before Skylab.. :rolleyes: ) But I always prefer to use appropriate tools for the job. You don't bang rivets with a hammer, why solder with a 'hot thing'?

If its a matter of learning to solder, relax. Its not real hard to learn but make it easy on yourself and get a good iron and use quality solder too. Along with Weller, HAIKO irons are supposed to be very good and a bit more sophisticated. My basic Weller WTCPN will set you back about $120.00. HAIKO about the same. Like any good tool, its a good investment. Buy extra tips in various sizes. Stick with 700 degrees, for Weller its controlled by the tip, for HAIKO, I think they have a control knob..

For solder, Kester or Ersin Multicore is great. Alpha's OK, too. 60/40 or 63/37 will do. 1/16" dia is fine. Don't buy the cheap stuff and always use rosin core.

To learn, practice. Good joints have the solder shiny and forming a smoothly graduated slope between the parts. If the joint is rounded like a bubble, it hasn't joined or you've used too much solder. If it looks frosty, its probably because the wires moved while it cooled. The solder is fractured and needs to be reheated. After a few joints, the excess rosin on the tip will bubble to the top and show as a dark residue left on the joint. Minimize this by cleaning the tip on the wet sponge provided with your expensive iron before each joint. Wiping the tip on the cool sponge will also cool it enough to kick in the temp control, making the tip piping hot when it hits the joint!

Big Soldering Secret: After cleaning the tip, apply a touch of solder to it. This will make a liquid film on the tip that will flow onto the joint when you touch it and make a heat path from the tip to the joint. The joint will heat rapidly and be ready to accept solder long before adjacent parts get too hot.

Second Big Soldering Secret: Use the right tip. A 3/16" Weller flatted conical tip is ideal for most solder-the-wire stuff. Bigger terminals, say 1/4" tabs to a brass grounding plate need to put more heat at the joint so one of the big flat 'screwdriver' tips is called for. Pick the right tip, and the temperature controlled iron will apply just the right amount of heat to get the joint just right to solder. Can't do that with anything but a temp controlled rig.

By now, the value of a temperature controlled iron is apparent. Wipe it on the sponge to clean the tip. Tip gets cool. Iron fires up and heats tip big time just in time to apply wetting solder. Apply big-hot tip to joint. Heat flows fast. Solder on other side flows and unites joint. Iron is removed before other stuff gets too hot. Solder cools to a shiny surface. Great Job!

Soldering rocking now? OK!

About the crimp vs solder thing, its not a thing. Its two different things. If you have to solder a crimped terminal you haven't crimped it right. If you can't crimp, solder. Never tin wires with solder before crimping (won't crimp right) and never solder after crimping (makes stress points).

A properly crimped terminal is gas-tight and every bit as secure as a soldered one. But 'properly' means using the right tool for the terminal. Paul indicated he spent big bux on crimp tools. He's not kidding. Crimp terminals and tooling are designed as systems that are matched to one another and a serious amount of engineering goes into each one.

Really.. A former neighbor used his Phd in mechanical engineering to design crimp and IDC terminations for 3M. When, over some BBQ and wine, I ventured that with that education, maybe he should be doing something like.. oh.. maybe .. fly the Space Shuttle.. he lit into me with how much goes into a termination, ductility of copper, pressure points and material flow and a bunch of other stuff, mostly unprintable. But, the lesson I took from the exchange, other than don't overserve mechanical engineers, was that the ol' Radio Shack wil-fit crimpers had to go.

And as I am sure Paul would agree, when you crimp that 30 cent DB-25 pin with your $150.00 AMP ProCrimper II, when you hear the wonderful *snick* of the ratchet crimp going home and you view the perfectly crimped, gas-tight connection you have just made, even under a 100X microscope, you'll undoubtly say..

$150.00!! for just one type of connection??

Yup! Sorry!

As long as you are at it, multiply that by how many other connector series you use. Years and years of experience would have me exhorting you to pay the freight. Some would say I've been bitten too often. Maybe. But before you dismiss my ravings, reread Paul's views about expensive crimpers.

Then pony up.

Because Paul does fly the Shuttle.
 
Go Crimps!

I'm sure not gonna argue with Lucky! :rolleyes:

(But I still like my butane for the occasional job, like putting a wire onto a phone jack, and especially for doing the heatshrink afterwards - you've just got to practice A LOT or all you'll do is burn stuff up.....don't ask how I know... :mad:

Paul
 
Very Good Info

Very good and helpful information on crimping and soldering. One additional recommendation use the Sn63 (63 % tin/ 37% lead) solder as it has no plastic state and is less prone to disturbed joint production during cooling.

Bob Axsom
 
Thanks for all the info guys! I think I'll pass on this one. If I really need a cordless butane for the few times I MIGHT use it, I'll check out the Weller model.

:)
 
Bob's right about the Sn63

Bob Axsom said:
One additional recommendation use the Sn63 (63 % tin/ 37% lead) solder as it has no plastic state and is less prone to disturbed joint production during cooling.

Bob Axsom

Its the way to go if you have the choice.